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VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:42 pm
by Rich Kraetsch
This week on the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast Joe and Rich cover many topics related to the business of pro wrestling including All In selling out in 30 minutes, WWE's rumored television deal, NJPW Dominion selling out quickly, NJPW's new president, Best of the Super Juniors and Rich's crazy wrestling weekend including reviews of ROH War of the Worlds, GameChanger Wrestling's "The Untouchables" and Warrior Wrestling's debut show.

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Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:43 pm
by Danwaka
I think his last name is pronounce May, actually.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:55 pm
by Leo C
PKThree, please defend your country's reputation.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:07 pm
by BoxingRobes
Ya'll doing Starrcast would be p embarrassing. They've got some real fucking GenPop geeks at that thing. Even being paid to be associated with the likes of that filth would be cringe.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:42 am
by Tim_dawg
Bitter vets stuck in the 80's/90's:

Always criticizing the current generation, and can't wait to tell them how wrong they are and how their generation was the best.

Also bitter vets stuck in the 80's/90's:

Making money off of All In by doing Starcast.

Funny how that works. They spend all this time telling the younger generation what's right and wrong, but when push comes to shove they want to be a part of this thing cause it's making money.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:11 am
by suplexberry
I'm not done listening yet, just wanted to drop my thoughts on All In/Starcast.

I think on Wrestlenomics they said who the guy behind Starcast was, and he was basically a businessman doing these podcast deals with all sorts of former stars, and coincidentally is married to Ric Flair's other daughter. The podcast racket of the older stars getting paydays is a fine enough racket, but it's really not for fans like us. So many wrestling fans are obsessed with "wrestling as it was" whereas the fans in our communities or the fans I personally relate to the most are interested in history, but are more interested in "wrestling as it will be in the future".

All In does represent the future, and I think part of its marketing and story-building is implicit. It's traveling a road less known, and that's exciting. They didn't have twitter and youtube in the 80's, even if wrestlers back then had all the mainstream popularity and personal bargaining power, it was still very different. So even if you get nothing out of BTE skits or don't care for the guys involved, it's interesting to see where it leads, and how it goes. It's a part of a shift, but one that's been happening slowly, gradually for a long while.

Back in the day Gallows, Anderson and Rocky had their own shambolic podcast that gained popularity before the former two got signed. I always think they really missed out on building something with that podcast, because it was so real, funny and strange, but filled with stuff they could've carried over to promos, storylines, angles, and they never did. They did do some "movies" (shorts) that ended up on vimeo but have since been taken down. BTE kind of is that promise fulfilled - it's acted but it's also a glimpse into realities of traveling, working wrestlers and their lives.

I'm just super happy this thing sold out, and hope everybody with a ticket gets a good show. I'm not one to make bold predictions but here's one: I think All In 2 needs to run against a WWE ppv.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:25 am
by Danwaka
suplexberry wrote:I'm not done listening yet, just wanted to drop my thoughts on All In/Starcast. I think on Wrestlenomics they said who the guy behind Starcast was, and he was basically a businessman doing these podcast deals with all sorts of former stars, and coincidentally is married to Ric Flair's other daughter.
Oh, you don't know Conrad? He does some podcasts with Bruce Prichard, Eric Bischoff and Tony Schiavone covering eras of professional wrestling in WCW and WWE. He's an old school wrestling fan that collected props, and that ran him into Ric Flair because of all of Flair's robes. They became friends, Conrad did a couple of podcasts with him and JJ Dillon and then moved onto the ones I mentioned above. I think he's some kind of realtor down in Alabama, does mortages and stuff. And yeah, he's engaged to Megan Fliehr as of a few months ago.

Actually a pretty entertaining dude on the podcasts. Kinda disappointed to hear he lowballed the boys, IMO.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:28 pm
by Rich Kraetsch
To clear things up, he didn't lowball us. His claim is that one of the people working with him sent us the wrong application. Whether you want to believe that or not is up to you. He's been nothing but cordial since then and personally offered us a free spot and when we turned that down, offered to meet up with me if I do attend one of the events.

I'm not as mad anyone knowing what the concept of the event is. When i initially thought it was a podcaster event running with All In, I had visions of an indie, small show type deal and it quickly became the most popular podcasts and old 80s and 90s wrestlers. That's fine. I have no beef with that but it's no longer something I feel passionate about one way or another. I wish them the absolute best.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:44 pm
by King Of Indy Style
Joe was absolutely on point re: this WWE deal being a shit deal for everyone except the stockholders and the McMahons. WWE will continue to put out an okay at the best product while everyone gets richer and richer.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:10 pm
by mlev76
At the risk of being further demeaned as a replica belt wearer sycophant during one of Joe's Alex Jones' like rants, allow me to retort to his statements about the deal:

1) The whole Dave argument about the network deal now making the ppvs irrelevant is a rehash of his argument about the Network he made in 2014. He was wrong then and I have no doubt he is wrong now. It's not like NBCU or other prospective buyers were unaware of the WWE business model that has existed for 30+ years. TV has and always will be a conduit to get people to spend money on PPVs/the Network.

2) It is for that reason that whether you like, loathe or are in the middle about the booking these days, I don't think this will suddenly be the catalyst to incentivize Vince or anyone else to give up on booking towards Networks shows and trying to do what they believe the fans want. To whit, after the last big deal, the product has by and large gotten a lot better. You may hate the Roman thing-and I hate it too but mostly because it makes every comic book geek anti-WWE nerd pop a woody-but if you can sit here and say the product in 2014 is better than is today you are wrong.

3) People seem to ignore that while WWE's ratings keep declining, it's still many times over the biggest show USA has. Mr. Robot is number two and barely gets 10% of their ratings. As terrestrial tv becomes less relevant, networks are going after the familiar. That's why all these old sitcoms are coming back. That's why the Simpsons, some 20 years after it past it's peak, will keep getting renewed for more and more money. RAW is a valued commodity and still remains so despite declines.

4) I don't buy that if they keep fucking with fans like they have that there won't be a backlash and that this insulates them. And I don't think they do either. There is a clear denial that the Roman thing failed. It's no longer even an argument online, just an accepted fact. And that last one's to accept that will be WWE.

5) Earlier this week, you asked why can't everyone be happy for the success of All In. Well, it's because people are assholes who live in their own alcoves and don't accept that both WWE and All in succeeding are BOTH good for the industry. Maybe when you leave your shell you'll see that.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm
by Joe Lanza
mlev76 wrote:At the risk of being further demeaned as a replica belt wearer sycophant during one of Joe's Alex Jones' like rants, allow me to retort to his statements about the deal:

1) The whole Dave argument about the network deal now making the ppvs irrelevant is a rehash of his argument about the Network he made in 2014. He was wrong then and I have no doubt he is wrong now. It's not like NBCU or other prospective buyers were unaware of the WWE business model that has existed for 30+ years. TV has and always will be a conduit to get people to spend money on PPVs/the Network.

2) It is for that reason that whether you like, loathe or are in the middle about the booking these days, I don't think this will suddenly be the catalyst to incentivize Vince or anyone else to give up on booking towards Networks shows and trying to do what they believe the fans want. To whit, after the last big deal, the product has by and large gotten a lot better. You may hate the Roman thing-and I hate it too but mostly because it makes every comic book geek anti-WWE nerd pop a woody-but if you can sit here and say the product in 2014 is better than is today you are wrong.

3) People seem to ignore that while WWE's ratings keep declining, it's still many times over the biggest show USA has. Mr. Robot is number two and barely gets 10% of their ratings. As terrestrial tv becomes less relevant, networks are going after the familiar. That's why all these old sitcoms are coming back. That's why the Simpsons, some 20 years after it past it's peak, will keep getting renewed for more and more money. RAW is a valued commodity and still remains so despite declines.

4) I don't buy that if they keep fucking with fans like they have that there won't be a backlash and that this insulates them. And I don't think they do either. There is a clear denial that the Roman thing failed. It's no longer even an argument online, just an accepted fact. And that last one's to accept that will be WWE.

5) Earlier this week, you asked why can't everyone be happy for the success of All In. Well, it's because people are assholes who live in their own alcoves and don't accept that both WWE and All in succeeding are BOTH good for the industry. Maybe when you leave your shell you'll see that.
I very clearly said that despite what Dave wrote, I would continue to build towards the big matches on PPV/Network because that's the long term play, and the TV bubble can burst anytime.

I laid out my reasons why I believe the NBCU deal is bad for fans. I stand by them.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:24 pm
by Tim_dawg
Interesting that Rich was impressed with Eli Everfly. When he showed up at PWG he got massive go away heat. People HATED him, and then he spit at a fan.

Mabey he has improved in the last couple months since then.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:41 pm
by Joe Lanza
Tim_dawg wrote:Interesting that Rich was impressed with Eli Everfly. When he showed up at PWG he got massive go away heat. People HATED him, and then he spit at a fan.

Mabey he has improved in the last couple months since then.
I saw him at Mania weekend and he was fine.

A lot of dudes have bombed at PWG over the last year or so. Yehi comes to mind as well. As you know, an easy crowd once you earn it, but the first impression is key. I'd imagine since PWG can make your career, there are some nerves involved that guys might not experience on a run-of-the-mill show.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:00 am
by Tim_dawg
Joe Lanza wrote:
Tim_dawg wrote:Interesting that Rich was impressed with Eli Everfly. When he showed up at PWG he got massive go away heat. People HATED him, and then he spit at a fan.

Mabey he has improved in the last couple months since then.
I saw him at Mania weekend and he was fine.

A lot of dudes have bombed at PWG over the last year or so. Yehi comes to mind as well. As you know, an easy crowd once you earn it, but the first impression is key. I'd imagine since PWG can make your career, there are some nerves involved that guys might not experience on a run-of-the-mill show.
That's a really good point. I should probally check out more of his stuff.

I've heard you say several times (and I am paraphrasing) that some dudes just don't fit in every promotion. Shane Strickland, Flip Gordon, War Machine just could never get over in PWG, and Jonah Rock who has been tremendous has go away heat because he had a horrible debut at BOLA vs Zack. And on the other side of the coin, Rey Horus, who is just a dude everywhere else is one of the more over guys in PWG. I guess even if Eli never gets over in PWG it's not fair to call him a bad worker.

Re: VOW Flagship: All In, Rumored WWE TV Deal, Super Juniors & more!

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:30 am
by suplexberry
Rest of the show was very funny.

According to a website (https://forvo.com/word/johan_de_meij/) the pronounciation of "Meij" is as simple as "May". So we can have "Who's on First" type skits about him. "Harold Meij--" "What may Harold?" Anyway, I think he spoke Indonesian and Dutch as well as English and Japanese fluently. Has studied in the US. Seems like a decent pick.

Roster attractiveness analysis was very amusing. One of my friends always talks about how that was always Tanahashi's goal - appeal to women and kids, broaden the scope of the audience. Japan is lucky in that wrestling doesn't seem to have a huge "anti-women" stigma. I think it's always important to remember that attractiveness aside, certain kinds of characters appeal to different kinds of women in the audience. Some will love the sparkly boyband look of SHO&YOH while others will prefer the clean babyfaces like KUSHIDA or Tanahashi, and other will become fans of EVIL, a thick boy dressed in velvet, makeup and gimmick. And wrestlers you would think specifically appeal to male fans, like Shibata with the old school look, actually also appeal to women a lot.

Danish/Dutch confusion also made me laugh a lot. I think commenting on the tax rates of Nordic countries (of which I live in the most depressing one, Finland!) may spark a political debate so I'll just say, in the spirit of tourism; come here during the summer sometime, experience long light-filled summer nights, beautiful nature, enjoy the food and the sights, and don't bother looking at your credit card bill until you get home. Or come here during winter and experience what 'godforsaken' truly means.

Superhappy Rich enjoyed GCW and I intend to buy the show eventually. I'm in my dm phase right now and honestly Japanese and American dm can be like night and day, with lucha extrema acting as the twilight or dawn between the two, because luchadors fit into both pretty well. Puro presentation seems better most of the time, the guys are better trained and the way shows are laid out means you don't get those 4-5 dm's back-to-back which hurts each one of them. FREEDOMS main events go hard, and BJW doesn't do DM mains more than like once every 2-3 months. Stuff like that really helps make singles dm feel important and big time.