VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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rovert
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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by rovert » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:41 am

supersonic in full Infowars mode here. Bless.

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armsofsleep
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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:18 pm

The second we actually get some hard numbers indicating people are signing up for Jericho, I'll believe it.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by Danwaka » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:15 pm

armsofsleep wrote:The second we actually get some hard numbers indicating people are signing up for Jericho, I'll believe it.
Mhm. Which is why I gave some Japan-specific details to debate his draw locally if nothing else.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:27 pm

armsofsleep wrote:The second we actually get some hard numbers indicating people are signing up for Jericho, I'll believe it.
I'm just trying to gather where you're going here... do you honestly think there won't be a ground swell of American fans who sign up to watch WK?

Again, it's just my circle but I have five friends who are definitely going to be watching because Jericho was announced. I could have a unique set of friends who are attracted to this but given the publicity of the announcement, I don't think my group is that unique.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:28 pm

Supersonic dude, clearly smarks want the best in ring match possible. You are shoving the term "best for business" down people's gullets like HHH circa 2013. I'm not sure what your point is and why you have chosen this hill to die considering this hill specifically focuses on indie wrestling and Japanese wrestling.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:23 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:The second we actually get some hard numbers indicating people are signing up for Jericho, I'll believe it.
I'm just trying to gather where you're going here... do you honestly think there won't be a ground swell of American fans who sign up to watch WK?

Again, it's just my circle but I have five friends who are definitely going to be watching because Jericho was announced. I could have a unique set of friends who are attracted to this but given the publicity of the announcement, I don't think my group is that unique.
I honestly don't really think so. Outside of the normal growing wave of Americans that has been increasing every year since the Okada reboot. I'll go one farther and say that Omega getting a ****** rating ultimately was more important to getting American fans then Jericho is.

Like, what is the demographic of person who has ignored NJPW up to this point that is suddenly all in and watching now? WWE only watchers (casual fans) are more likely to go to a local indie show where Jericho is taking pictures then subscribe to a weird Japanese streaming service to watch a show that airs at 2 AM. ROH Bullet Club shirt guys came in last year because of Omega and the ****** match. Who are you getting? The hardcore WWE people who love NXT and are curious about where their faves came from? Why would a guy who just came off an abysmal (in-ring) run get them in?

It's really hard to project this stuff, because at the end of the day, we are just using a combination of anecdotal evidence and a loose perception of the wrestling landscape. But I just can't see it majorly moving the needle in a tangible way.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by mlev76 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:52 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Like, what is the demographic of person who has ignored NJPW up to this point that is suddenly all in and watching now? WWE only watchers (casual fans) are more likely to go to a local indie show where Jericho is taking pictures then subscribe to a weird Japanese streaming service to watch a show that airs at 2 AM. ROH Bullet Club shirt guys came in last year because of Omega and the ****** match. Who are you getting? The hardcore WWE people who love NXT and are curious about where their faves came from? Why would a guy who just came off an abysmal (in-ring) run get them in?
That's where I am now on this, but I don't think it's an open and shut case that he won't bump subscribers up. He's certainly the highest level WWE associated guy to go to New Japan since NJPWorld started so it's uncharted territory and it's also unclear how much Jericho's online cache through his podcast and various social media accounts will matter. I'm as curious about that as I am about whether sites will cover WK that wouldn't have without him. I'm not sure if ESPN has covered WK before, but I would suspect they will this year.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by IIDXias » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:21 pm

mlev76 wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:
Like, what is the demographic of person who has ignored NJPW up to this point that is suddenly all in and watching now? WWE only watchers (casual fans) are more likely to go to a local indie show where Jericho is taking pictures then subscribe to a weird Japanese streaming service to watch a show that airs at 2 AM. ROH Bullet Club shirt guys came in last year because of Omega and the ****** match. Who are you getting? The hardcore WWE people who love NXT and are curious about where their faves came from? Why would a guy who just came off an abysmal (in-ring) run get them in?
That's where I am now on this, but I don't think it's an open and shut case that he won't bump subscribers up. He's certainly the highest level WWE associated guy to go to New Japan since NJPWorld started so it's uncharted territory and it's also unclear how much Jericho's online cache through his podcast and various social media accounts will matter. I'm as curious about that as I am about whether sites will cover WK that wouldn't have without him. I'm not sure if ESPN has covered WK before, but I would suspect they will this year.
ESPN did cover it last year, although in a pretty terrible article ("reserved Japanese fans"! nakamura was an anchor of the bullet club!!): http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/1841 ... -wrestling

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm iffy on mainstream coverage actually mattering anyway. WWE puts such a huge priority on it so it ~feels~ like a big deal but has it ever really helped out? Especially for a non-US entity?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by JML » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:14 am

I might be the only one that enjoyed the production talk and I'm watching TNF cause of the Sky Cam. I absolutely love it and WWE needs to go back to the Jib Cam that they used for Smackdown Live (Im guessing cause of the production costs, that got cut too). A Jib camera can do wonders cause it made Smackdown look different than anything WWE was doing. Dragon Gate does it on big shows, New Japan used to do it in the 2000s up until the the beginning of the Bushiroad era and even it dates back to All Japan Women in the late 80s/early 90s cause Fuji Tv handled the production. I've been catching up on boxing and Sky Sports Box Office shows Boxing like it's Fight Night Champion with their moving Jib camera in the corner to show the action.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Zayn & Owens, Power Struggle, Bound for Glory, Dragon Gate & more!

Post by Leo C » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:18 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:The second we actually get some hard numbers indicating people are signing up for Jericho, I'll believe it.
I'm just trying to gather where you're going here... do you honestly think there won't be a ground swell of American fans who sign up to watch WK?

Again, it's just my circle but I have five friends who are definitely going to be watching because Jericho was announced. I could have a unique set of friends who are attracted to this but given the publicity of the announcement, I don't think my group is that unique.
I honestly don't really think so. Outside of the normal growing wave of Americans that has been increasing every year since the Okada reboot. I'll go one farther and say that Omega getting a ****** rating ultimately was more important to getting American fans then Jericho is.

Like, what is the demographic of person who has ignored NJPW up to this point that is suddenly all in and watching now? WWE only watchers (casual fans) are more likely to go to a local indie show where Jericho is taking pictures then subscribe to a weird Japanese streaming service to watch a show that airs at 2 AM. ROH Bullet Club shirt guys came in last year because of Omega and the ****** match. Who are you getting? The hardcore WWE people who love NXT and are curious about where their faves came from? Why would a guy who just came off an abysmal (in-ring) run get them in?

It's really hard to project this stuff, because at the end of the day, we are just using a combination of anecdotal evidence and a loose perception of the wrestling landscape. But I just can't see it majorly moving the needle in a tangible way.
I think you're underestimating the popularity these WWE guys have, especially Jericho who was there up until a couple months ago. I think there are still a lot of people who only watch WWE and may have heard of NJPW, Okada, Omega, 6 stars and whatever but haven't watched it yet. For many people it takes a lot of time to branch off from WWE and pursue other products even if they have been aware it exists for a while and Jericho being there is definitely a difference maker in my opinion. A guy they are already big fans of is in a big match and can still deliver. This is definitely more appealing than, for example, Ibushi vs Omega if you're trying to get people who have heard about NJPW but are on the fence.

For example, on the last wrestling show I went to, there were people I talked to who didn't even know what NJPW was, there were people who were upset that Ishii has never won the IWGP Heavyweight title and there was a considerable number who knew Okada, Omega and Naito but never actually watched. You're indeed not getting the ones from the first group by saying "hey watch Jericho on this Japanese show at 2 AM", the ones from the second are gonna watch anyway and you're certainly getting a good chunk of the third group. As Rich said this is a small sample size but I've seen many people online who also seem to think this way.

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