VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

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VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:32 pm

This week on the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast Rich and Joe talk the last week of NJPW's G1 Climax 27 including potential finals scenarios, our thoughts on some of the biggest matches of the tournament and an idea of expanding the tournament to 24-men.

Other topics include a dive into an eventful weekend in the Australian wrestling scene, EVOLVE/PROGRESS/Beyond's busy weekend and Atsushi Onita being the ultimate worker and an update on the NWA brand name.

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armsofsleep
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Lots of Gedo booking talk in detail, which is always fun. Undeniable that they've built stars and the stars are drawing, which I guess is the point of the business. I still think it's fair to be disappointed with the current booking strategy though.

I don't mind dominance, but why does Gedo feel the need to telegraph decisions months in advance? Why are the final four of the G1 made up of Naito and three guys who are holding belts already? Why are we giving Naito a big main event WK win a year late? It makes his previous title win against Okada feel pretty worthless. Just like it'll take another year or two (or three!) for Omega to finally get his main event win, and it won't have nearly the same impact (in terms of being good. I'm sure itll do fine business.) And if he loves dominance so much, why the weak flop back to KUSHIDA when Hiromu was more deserving than anyone of a monster push? Why did Hiromu lose meaningless matches in the BOSJ? I wish he would apply that philosophy to literally any other part of his booking (lets not even touch tag belts).

I get the motto with Gedo is to be patient, but approaching strictly from a storytelling perspective and not caring about business, it's a pretty tough pill to swallow. These young lion crops keep getting bigger and better, and the roster is getting a bit crowded. Give Ospreay and Ricochet something to do. Give Evil, Juice, Elgin, etc something to do. NJPW won't run out of talent, but we are going to look back in 5 years and see a nice chunk of Mascara Doradas because Gedo couldn't let go of his 600 year old booking plan scrolls.

Edit: Got farther in, the point that Shibata and Honma would've bumped Juice sort of furthers what I was saying. IMAGINE this G1 without Juice. God that's sad. He's my second in line for MVP behind Nagata.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:50 am

Great show, loved the breadth of topics. I appreciate that this year's G1 isn't insulting my intelligence and pretending anyone but the big 4 matter. Sure, Goto snuck in last year, but that was an anomaly. I wouldn't have minded Ibushi or Suzuki being in the mix, but I also don't mind that they weren't. The big 4 are the big 4 for a reason.

Is there any chance Yano would've been bumped? I know why people would say no, I'm just throwing it out there. Imagine if Davey Boy Smith Jr. had replaced him this year. This tournament would've been even better.

Watched the Ospreay/Eagles match while listening to this. Twas awesome. What Ospreay claims he wants to do for Australia is the most interesting thing in wrestling to me now.

Progress 45 is awesome, show of the year contender no doubt. Forgot how awesome Newell vs Jinny was. Ya gotta catch up Joe, they've been awesome all year.

I will be at both NY shows. A few hours from now, in fact. My boy is worried about the NY crowd with Progress because of how Mania weekend went. I expect we'll get something in-between. I'm down to sing. Hopefully this crowd is familiar enough to get on board.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by noggy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:34 am

Regarding changes to next year's G1, I think there's a few things NJPW could realistically do. I assume you're aware now but weren't when recording but they're using a 7,500 seat configuration for the first two Sumo Hall shows and the full 11,000 seat configuration for the finals. The difference being selling two tickets per box as opposed to four per box. So there's room to expand by using the full configuration all three nights instead of doing five total shows there. I agree with the other reasons you guys gave for sticking with just three shows but I think that's another not to do more shows there.

NJPW has already announced they're be doing shows back to back nights in ~6,000 seat venues next January in Sapporo and next May in Fukuoka for Wrestling Dontaku. I'm thinking that may continue doing that later in the year for the G1, doing two shows back to back nights in bigger markets like Osaka and Nagoya. One of things that I don't think is specifically talked about enough in terms of what makes the tournament such a grind for the wrestlers is all of the travel days. If they do the same amount of shows in the same amount of time but reduce the number of cities they have to travel to, I think that would help the wrestlers without hurting business or watering down the tournament by doing what Meltzer suggested.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by AJR » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:55 am

Couple of things you might be interested in regarding the whole Australian scene discussion:

Mr Juicy actually went to Japan at the start of this year and started making deals with NJPW in the hopes of bring a New Japan show to Australia. I'm pretty sure he's the guy leading the charge behind the NJPW tryouts that are happening before next weekends MCW show, especially since he's tagging with Fale at that show.

There's also a triple threat happening at that show between Brooks, Eagles and Ospreay with both the PWA and MCW Intercommonwealth title on the line.

Ospreay recording a podcast with with a couple of Sydney wrestlers called "Conco and the Fudge" where he laid out his reasons for wanting to move to Australia. It's worth a listen. He basically covered a lot of the points you guys went over: that he's done all he can for the time being in the UK, that he feels a need to help out a growing scene rather than stay in an established one, and that he knows he can bring international attention to where he goes.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:45 pm

The show "with 7 or 8 +**** matches" you were talking about is the G1 23 day 4, in Osaka obviously. Yano/Yujiro opened the show, and those 9 matches followed:

*Anderson vs Tenzan [*** 1/2]
*Shelton vs Nagata [*** 1/2]
*Kojima vs Smith [*** 3/4]
*Ishii vs Shibata (yes, that one) [*****]
*Goto vs Archer [*** 1/2]
*Naito vs Suzuki [****]
*Tanahashi vs Devitt [**** 1/4]
*Okada vs Makabe [**** 1/4]
*Nakamura vs Ibushi [**** 3/4]

I rewatched that show recently to see how it compares with some of the great G1 shows from last few years. Yep, was still a banger just like I remembered, I'd say this is the best non-WK show New Japan has had in this era.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:07 pm

armsofsleep wrote:Lots of Gedo booking talk in detail, which is always fun. Undeniable that they've built stars and the stars are drawing, which I guess is the point of the business. I still think it's fair to be disappointed with the current booking strategy though.

I don't mind dominance, but why does Gedo feel the need to telegraph decisions months in advance? Why are the final four of the G1 made up of Naito and three guys who are holding belts already? Why are we giving Naito a big main event WK win a year late? It makes his previous title win against Okada feel pretty worthless. Just like it'll take another year or two (or three!) for Omega to finally get his main event win, and it won't have nearly the same impact (in terms of being good. I'm sure itll do fine business.) And if he loves dominance so much, why the weak flop back to KUSHIDA when Hiromu was more deserving than anyone of a monster push? Why did Hiromu lose meaningless matches in the BOSJ? I wish he would apply that philosophy to literally any other part of his booking (lets not even touch tag belts).

I get the motto with Gedo is to be patient, but approaching strictly from a storytelling perspective and not caring about business, it's a pretty tough pill to swallow. These young lion crops keep getting bigger and better, and the roster is getting a bit crowded. Give Ospreay and Ricochet something to do. Give Evil, Juice, Elgin, etc something to do. NJPW won't run out of talent, but we are going to look back in 5 years and see a nice chunk of Mascara Doradas because Gedo couldn't let go of his 600 year old booking plan scrolls.

Edit: Got farther in, the point that Shibata and Honma would've bumped Juice sort of furthers what I was saying. IMAGINE this G1 without Juice. God that's sad. He's my second in line for MVP behind Nagata.
Good post, and I feel like it deserves a response. Let me tackle it piece by piece.

-"Why are we giving Naito a big main event WK win a year late?"

I disagree strongly here. In hindsight, I don't see how anyone could argue with how WK, and ultimately the rest of the year, has played out. That match solidified Omega as a worldwide superstar and set the tone for Dominion, Long Beach, and everything else that followed. If Omega doesn't win G1 none of that happens. Naito beating Okada also would have derailed the most successful IWGP title run in years. WK was smack dab in the middle of Okada's momentum building run of drawing sellout after sellout. It's his signature run, the one that has lifted him from star to mega star. A Naito G1 win and WK victory changes all of this. Omega never gets to the next level and Okada's 2017 never happens.

They went with Okada over Naito, and it was very clearly the right move. Naito was already hot, he can have his big moment/year in 2018, and I'd argue he's peaking right now anyway.

I also disagree that his previous title win was worthless. It established him as a top guy capable of winning that title. And again, a longer run interferes with their Okada story, which considering how it has played out, has been a massive success and the correct path to take.

No no no on Naito winning last year. Just no.

-"Why the flip flop back to KUSHIDA?"

Agree 100%. Hiromu should have never lost to KUSHIDA, and he's being flat out abused ever since. He should not be dropping falls. He was ultra protected all year, working semi main events, even had billing at WK, never dropped falls, and was looking like a future main eventer (heavy or otherwise). Now he's just another junior pin eater on the undercard. Baffling, baffling stuff. KUSHIDA had his time. He helped get Hiromu over as unstoppable. That redemption story was rushed and a mistake.

And don't get me started on Daryl. Goofy prelim shit not befitting of a main event player. But maybe they don't see him as a main event player, which to me is crazy, because he could be, even as a junior. It's all the more frustrating because it looked like the juniors were moving up in perception and treatment, and now Hiromu is eating pins from low level heavies like Juice. No beuno.

-"Give Ricochet & Will something to do."

YES. If Hiromu HAD to lose, it should have been Will. KUSHIDA should have been in the rear view, the story should have been that he simply can't hang (for now) with this new guy. Will was fresh, the only guy Hiromu hadn't beaten yet, and is a worldwide superstar. He's the most neglected potential star in the comapny since 2012, and yes that includes Shibata or anybody else people want to bring up.

-"Give EVIL, Juice, Elgin something to do."

Sure, and it looks like EVIL will be getting a title match. But you can't push everybody. If you push everyone, you're pushing no one.

-"The roster is getting crowded"

This is a good problem to have. Some guys will be left out when it comes to pushes. That's unfortunately how it works. At the end of the day, the booker's job is to draw money, not to ensure everyone gets an at bat. So far, they've pushed the right buttons nearly every time in regards to the top of the card.

Gedo's booking is slow, and it is deliberate. This produces some frustration in terms of rematches or slow deveoping pushes, both valid asthetic complaints.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:07 pm

AJR wrote:Couple of things you might be interested in regarding the whole Australian scene discussion:

Mr Juicy actually went to Japan at the start of this year and started making deals with NJPW in the hopes of bring a New Japan show to Australia. I'm pretty sure he's the guy leading the charge behind the NJPW tryouts that are happening before next weekends MCW show, especially since he's tagging with Fale at that show.

There's also a triple threat happening at that show between Brooks, Eagles and Ospreay with both the PWA and MCW Intercommonwealth title on the line.

Ospreay recording a podcast with with a couple of Sydney wrestlers called "Conco and the Fudge" where he laid out his reasons for wanting to move to Australia. It's worth a listen. He basically covered a lot of the points you guys went over: that he's done all he can for the time being in the UK, that he feels a need to help out a growing scene rather than stay in an established one, and that he knows he can bring international attention to where he goes.
Good stuff, thanks.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:08 pm

noggy wrote:Regarding changes to next year's G1, I think there's a few things NJPW could realistically do. I assume you're aware now but weren't when recording but they're using a 7,500 seat configuration for the first two Sumo Hall shows and the full 11,000 seat configuration for the finals. The difference being selling two tickets per box as opposed to four per box. So there's room to expand by using the full configuration all three nights instead of doing five total shows there. I agree with the other reasons you guys gave for sticking with just three shows but I think that's another not to do more shows there.

NJPW has already announced they're be doing shows back to back nights in ~6,000 seat venues next January in Sapporo and next May in Fukuoka for Wrestling Dontaku. I'm thinking that may continue doing that later in the year for the G1, doing two shows back to back nights in bigger markets like Osaka and Nagoya. One of things that I don't think is specifically talked about enough in terms of what makes the tournament such a grind for the wrestlers is all of the travel days. If they do the same amount of shows in the same amount of time but reduce the number of cities they have to travel to, I think that would help the wrestlers without hurting business or watering down the tournament by doing what Meltzer suggested.
Excellent point on potentially expanding to the full Sumo Hall setup instead of adding nights.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by ScorpioCorp » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:09 am

AJR wrote:Couple of things you might be interested in regarding the whole Australian scene discussion:

Mr Juicy actually went to Japan at the start of this year and started making deals with NJPW in the hopes of bring a New Japan show to Australia. I'm pretty sure he's the guy leading the charge behind the NJPW tryouts that are happening before next weekends MCW show, especially since he's tagging with Fale at that show.

There's also a triple threat happening at that show between Brooks, Eagles and Ospreay with both the PWA and MCW Intercommonwealth title on the line.

Ospreay recording a podcast with with a couple of Sydney wrestlers called "Conco and the Fudge" where he laid out his reasons for wanting to move to Australia. It's worth a listen. He basically covered a lot of the points you guys went over: that he's done all he can for the time being in the UK, that he feels a need to help out a growing scene rather than stay in an established one, and that he knows he can bring international attention to where he goes.
Wow, Mr Juicy was the guy behind the NJPW stuff. I knew that he is a huge fan of NJPW (especially Nakamura), but I didn't know that he was the one with the contacts. I do remember that he sent a tweet which was a week before Ospreay had his matches in Australia. He said that if any of the conversations that he had have any weight behind it, the scene was going to explode. It could of been about Ospreay or something bigger (probably Ospreay).

Also, that Ospreay podcast was great. Definitely worth checking out.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by BackLash » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:17 am

I would have hoped Billy would have kept Smokey Mountain under the NWA wing, I really enjoyed the show when I saw it on YouTube.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:52 am

After listening to the opening banter...

New Nickname for Rich..."Secretly Cuck-y" Rich Kraetsch.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Danwaka » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:15 pm

Missed a big wide opening for "Secretly Sissy" there Boxing.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:27 pm

Danwaka wrote:Missed a big wide opening for "Secretly Sissy" there Boxing.
Not all cucks are sissies, Danwaka.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals Preview, Aussie Scene, Onita & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:41 pm

This took a turn.

I didnt take that exchange as Rich coming off as a cuck, I took it as him (playfully) accusing me of being a creep.

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