VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:31 pm

Joe Lanza makes his long-awaited return to the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast joining Rich for a discussion on NJPW's Dominion 6.11 from Osaka-jo Hall including reaction to Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Tetsuya Naito and more. Joe and Rich also discuss the upcoming NJPW G1 Specials in Long Beach, California, NJPW's Kizuna Road tour and much more along the way.

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suplexberry
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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by suplexberry » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Great fucking show.

Glad I put my extended Kawato thoughts into a post on this forum when Joe went all "idk about this geek". Good to hear he's turned around because while I have no idea what Kawato is gonna become, I just know he will be a something. Korakuen crowd loves him like he's their son. Other places are starting to, as well.

"Where you go learn walk down a ramp" made me choke on my tea. Don't flagship and drink, kids.

The Nakamura shoutout is so interesting too because you could read a ton into Tanahashi winning to honor him, but also Naito kicking out, perhaps signaling a subtle fuck you from the new 1B. Every match these two have is like a brick-sized Russian novel in depth and scope and story.

You guys made me feel a lot better about the G1 special shows. I have no clue what the US tournament final is gonna be but thinking through the various possibilities, most of them strike me as hot as fuck.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Garuda » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:16 am

Great show this week. Glad to hear the positive takes on the Long Beach shows; maybe I needed some reassurance. The Cody thing to a degree, and much moreso the Billy Gunn thing... you just don't want to feel misunderstood as American NJPW fans. I don't want to see Billy Gunn in a big match.

I would counter some of the online response to say something like: I get it, but keep in mind they aren't just catering to current NJPW fans, they're trying to appeal to new fans probably most of all.

Of course the counter is that why would a rando want to see Billy Gunn in 2017 against some Japanese guy they don't know. Beats me, but as ever I'll reserve judgement to see how it goes. The Cody thing in particular could go anywhere from brilliant booking to nuclear disaster. Even if Cody gets the title and they do it in a great way that sets up a great heel act... I don't want to see Cody and the idea of him ending this legendary run makes me woozy.

I just wonder if Cody has the right mindset about Japan. Maybe he does. But someone like Juice came into NJPW ready to learn and grow, and although Cody's a relative veteran, you'd hope he'd have an open enough mind to learn something outside of the WWE style matches. And if he had a volume of matches in New Japan I wouldn't be shocked if he became a really good worker, but he's not really wrestling enough there to deprogram his boring in-ring style in the way a Juice did, who was wrestling matches constantly from underneath. I'd love to see Cody really grow into an in-ring talent, but I don't know if it's possible.

As for the NJPW US tournament, your discussion has me all abuzz wondering who it could be.

Wiki's got a bracket up for anyone else who likes to stare at brackets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWGP_Unit ... ampionship

If not Omega, then who? Elgin I'd like a lot. Juice I'd fucking LOVE (if Juice gets a good run I'll be so happy). Maybe....Ishii?! I'd melt in my chair that happened.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:49 am

Watching unspoiled, the Okada foot on the rope spot is the best foot on the rope spot I've ever seen. On the immediate replay it was apparent that they were close to the ropes, but the whole build to Omega hitting The OWA, withstanding Okada's hammering blows, grabbing the wrist, pulling him down to the mat, and hooking him as deep a he did completely tunnel visioned me and many people I've spoken to about this.

I think Hiromu's mega push is far from over. They clearly have plans for this man. I do agree that KUSHIDA came back too soon, but once he pinned Ospreay the finish to this match couldn't have been different, it would've killed KUSHIDA. Hiromu will be fine.

Glad to hear Lanza go off about the Jr tag match, it was great. The Bucks working southern style storytelling and Trent's greatness deserve to be gushed over.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by supersonic » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:53 am

Better than Danielson's foot on the rope at Glory By Honor V Night 2?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:22 am

supersonic wrote:Better than Danielson's foot on the rope at Glory By Honor V Night 2?

I guess I didn't technically know who was going to win that match when I first saw it, but I kinda knew. I did not follow ROH at that time so I can't compare. I pretty much knew Danielson was winning.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by suplexberry » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:29 am

Btw, loved you guys talking about apron spots because I think it's the one fiction our brains have hardwired so even the smartest fans will cringe at the most brutal apron spots. It's like the one kayfabe everybody believes in. I find myself logically being like "those can't hurt that much, otherwise they'd avoid them" but then an apron spot happens like the ones in the KUSHI vs Hiromu match and my brain just is convinced those are nasty and horrid and a voice inside me is yelling, "No, not on the apron!". They really add to a big match as it stands right now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:25 pm

suplexberry wrote:Btw, loved you guys talking about apron spots because I think it's the one fiction our brains have hardwired so even the smartest fans will cringe at the most brutal apron spots. It's like the one kayfabe everybody believes in. I find myself logically being like "those can't hurt that much, otherwise they'd avoid them" but then an apron spot happens like the ones in the KUSHI vs Hiromu match and my brain just is convinced those are nasty and horrid and a voice inside me is yelling, "No, not on the apron!". They really add to a big match as it stands right now.
That's the art of the game right there. The logical side of you says "well, c'mon it's a work, they know what they are doing" and it's immediately followed by you going "HOLY SHIT GOD DAMMIT!"

That's the best feeling in the world and what makes wrestling as great as it is.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Lawsoncomedy wrote:Watching unspoiled, the Okada foot on the rope spot is the best foot on the rope spot I've ever seen. On the immediate replay it was apparent that they were close to the ropes, but the whole build to Omega hitting The OWA, withstanding Okada's hammering blows, grabbing the wrist, pulling him down to the mat, and hooking him as deep a he did completely tunnel visioned me and many people I've spoken to about this.

I think Hiromu's mega push is far from over. They clearly have plans for this man. I do agree that KUSHIDA came back too soon, but once he pinned Ospreay the finish to this match couldn't have been different, it would've killed KUSHIDA. Hiromu will be fine.

Glad to hear Lanza go off about the Jr tag match, it was great. The Bucks working southern style storytelling and Trent's greatness deserve to be gushed over.
Eventually, you've got to get away from the "undefeated streak"...its a shitty crutch that you book yourself into a corner with. Super Juniors and this latest KUSHIDA match helped rid themselves of that potential issue, and its not like Hiromu lost anything. He's teflon, IMO. The man's gimmick is that he is a bit erratic, sometimes, he's going to get caught...and he did against a guy he definitely took lightly.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by throwstuff165 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:00 pm

Wanted to point out real quick that Okada and Tanahashi also did the "collapse from exhaustion to avoid the Rainmaker" spot in their draw in the 2013 G1, so we probably can't attribute it exclusively to Omega's genius. As awesome as it was then, though, I do think it probably was pulled off even a little better in Okada/Omega.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:04 pm

Charlotte, Braun, and Rusev (with Lana), and Alexa Bliss really, are the only PC types that IMO, hold up, but none really have a crowd connection. Bray Wyatt is so manufactured. You know he isn't really over nor really connects.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by BackLash » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:38 pm

WKV was my official start to New Japan, I had seen matches with Lesnar, Angle, Giant Bernard and Nakamura prior, but seeing the epic VTR for that show had me seeking it out and once I watched it I was hooked.

I may be overshadowed nowadays but it mixed the familiar (TNA guys including Okada, Bernard, Nagata, Liger, Hector Garza) with something different that I was watching at the time. The night I watched it, I fell in love with guys like Omega (though his antics in DDT helped), Bad Intentions, Yano, and especially Kojima and was amazed by the likes Dorada, La Sombra, Devitt, and Ibushi. While Makabe and Tanaka didn't fall in either camp, I loved how brutal that hardcore match was.

Not the WK, but a great start for me, by far the best VTR I've ever seen in terms of special effects.

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Re: RE: Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Sticky Dreamboat » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:47 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:Charlotte, Braun, and Rusev (with Lana), and Alexa Bliss really, are the only PC types that IMO, hold up, but none really have a crowd connection. Bray Wyatt is so manufactured. You know he isn't really over nor really connects.
Sasha and Bayley were hella over until a couple years of bad booking killed their reactions. I don't know if I see any more homegrown talents of the calibre of that class in the curent crop of NXT talents though.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Speedy Bellerin » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:47 am

Great show guys. I had no idea what Joe was going through at work it sounds unbelievably rough so cheers for doing the show.

I was audibly annoyed when I saw Cody challenge Okada. I made a big Nooooooo sound. But it's not that bad seeing as these shows are just NJPW dipping their toes in US waters. Obviously this is all based on the idea that Okada retains, I'm going to throw an undignified tantrum if he wins.

I'm more than willing to give the NJPWUSA.... NJUS? NewSA? Promtion a fair chance. It's more than possible it'll be a great US indy style show with excursions and occasional appearances from bigger stars. Thats not too bad is it? I suppose it comes down to how well they run it and how big a commitment they make to it.

No idea why Billy Gunn is fighting Tanahashi

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion, Omega/Okada, NJPW G1 Specials & more!

Post by Danwaka » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:09 am

NJPW USA really just needs to be called USPW.

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