VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu May 11, 2017 9:00 pm

This week on the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast, Joe and Rich open up the VOW Forum mailbag and answer questions from our loyal listeners.

Questions include thoughts on the best/worst ring gear in wrestling, NJPW's American expansion, WWE projections for top indie stars, the future of 205 Live, FloSlam value and, of course, a lengthy discussion of Alex “The Pug” Porteau.

Support our sponsors: BloomTHAT (http://BloomThat.com/VOW) & Dollar Shave Club (http://dollarshaveclub.com/voices)

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VOW: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2017/0 ... questions/

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by supersonic » Thu May 11, 2017 9:44 pm

12:06

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by supersonic » Thu May 11, 2017 10:21 pm

As if WWE, which yanked Nakamura from ROH's 14th Anniversary weekend, gives a single shit about talents honoring their original bookings.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by mlev76 » Thu May 11, 2017 10:44 pm

In the last week, Alex Porteau was a guest on AOW and now, he was discussed for a few minutes on VOW. Don't look now, but the Pug is having a resurgence!

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Goat » Fri May 12, 2017 2:49 am

I was at the NJPW show in Rahway in 2011. I will swear on a stack of Bibles that the best match on that show was Dan Maff vs Toru Yano.

Also Naito vs Josh Daniels is the worst match I have ever seen live.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri May 12, 2017 3:14 am

I actually really enjoy the merch table culture of US indies. It's a point of appeal for me. You guys talk about humanizing vignettes of a guy like roddy strong yet when you interact with the actual human is diminishes their star?

A lot of wrestling fans are not capable of handling this dynamic with tact and grace (via being weirdos with little emotional and social IQ).

I have a greater rooting interest in guys like Elgin and David Starr bc I was able to talk briefly with them at limitless. I don't see this as a bad thing. My major issue with it is weirdo wrestling fans treating Indy wrestlers as rent a friends


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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by mrjoshdude » Fri May 12, 2017 4:06 am

Ferrante207 wrote:I actually really enjoy the merch table culture of US indies. It's a point of appeal for me. You guys talk about humanizing vignettes of a guy like roddy strong yet when you interact with the actual human is diminishes their star?

A lot of wrestling fans are not capable of handling this dynamic with tact and grace (via being weirdos with little emotional and social IQ).

I have a greater rooting interest in guys like Elgin and David Starr bc I was able to talk briefly with them at limitless. I don't see this as a bad thing. My major issue with it is weirdo wrestling fans treating Indy wrestlers as rent a friends


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Completely agree with all this, one thing I'd add too is when a guy is out at the merch tables and they're getting absolutely surrounded by fans wanting a pic or to buy something it makes them appear as bigger stars to me than if they just came out for their match later on.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by BackLash » Fri May 12, 2017 11:36 am

G8 show as always.

For the New Japan American tour question, would reliance on part timers (Chase Owens, CMLL guys, RoH guys) still be seen as polarizing by American fans who are expecting New Japan's Japanese talent and full time gaijin talent (Kenny Omega etc.)?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri May 12, 2017 1:16 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:I actually really enjoy the merch table culture of US indies. It's a point of appeal for me. You guys talk about humanizing vignettes of a guy like roddy strong yet when you interact with the actual human is diminishes their star?

A lot of wrestling fans are not capable of handling this dynamic with tact and grace (via being weirdos with little emotional and social IQ).

I have a greater rooting interest in guys like Elgin and David Starr bc I was able to talk briefly with them at limitless. I don't see this as a bad thing. My major issue with it is weirdo wrestling fans treating Indy wrestlers as rent a friends


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Look at the world of real professional sports. Each individual has their own pretty awesome human story whether they are the token family man or they are the humble beginning come-from-nothing types or they come from a lineage of former athletes.

However, you don't see Tom Brady before and after a Patriots game hocking #12 jerseys, shirtsies, and 8x12s and fraternizing with fans unless its as he is rushing to the team bus. You don't see them having this open door policy to fans for "unlimited access" around events. Sure, they have mandatory stuff in the off-season, but its not like in wrestling where they are out there hustling like carnies.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri May 12, 2017 4:11 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:I actually really enjoy the merch table culture of US indies. It's a point of appeal for me. You guys talk about humanizing vignettes of a guy like roddy strong yet when you interact with the actual human is diminishes their star?

A lot of wrestling fans are not capable of handling this dynamic with tact and grace (via being weirdos with little emotional and social IQ).

I have a greater rooting interest in guys like Elgin and David Starr bc I was able to talk briefly with them at limitless. I don't see this as a bad thing. My major issue with it is weirdo wrestling fans treating Indy wrestlers as rent a friends


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Look at the world of real professional sports. Each individual has their own pretty awesome human story whether they are the token family man or they are the humble beginning come-from-nothing types or they come from a lineage of former athletes.

However, you don't see Tom Brady before and after a Patriots game hocking #12 jerseys, shirtsies, and 8x12s and fraternizing with fans unless its as he is rushing to the team bus. You don't see them having this open door policy to fans for "unlimited access" around events. Sure, they have mandatory stuff in the off-season, but its not like in wrestling where they are out there hustling like carnies.
The scale and magnitude of their stardom isn't even in the same stratosphere. A lot of people follow Indy wrestling because they enjoy engaging with the performers via social media or IRL.

Matt Riddle has increased his star by being this charming man of the people. He acts like he is the avatar for all these wrestling nerds and they eat it up. Chris Hero did this too. I wanted nothing more than to bump forearms with the man. His walkout has a specific connection with that fans and he makes sure everyone who wants a forearm bump gets one so they can take that home and keep it with them.

Joe and Rich are correct that certain acts should not take this approach. (Pentagon being a great example).


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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by phenom951 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:11 pm

Since the hot topic of discussion appears to be whether or not fraternizing with fans kills the star aura of a wrestler I'll weigh in and say I'm completely in agreement with Joe in that it does kill the aura of being a star. What makes a true star/celeb is that they're not like everyone else, not like us fans who pay to see them. And every time a wrestler hangs out and mingles with the rest of us, we start looking at them more and more like just regular guys. That being said, fans like myself and other newsletter/smart mark fans etc. don't watch wrestling primarily to see "stars" we watch to see great matches, analyze shit, and because we all secretly want to be a part of the business so the fact that wrestlers make themselves so available to us at shows like PWG, AAW, etc. is an absolute draw.

I used to love going to PWG and picking Chris Hero's brain about the business and what he loves about being a pro wrestler etc. so as a fan I love this aspect of going to an indy show. That being said one show in particular I remember being at a few years back, literally every wrestler was in the ring puching merch and taking picks. All but Roderick Strong and Kyle O'Reilly who were working the main event that night. And those guys I gotta tell you the second they came out there was a big fight feel, because it'd be the only time we ever see them the entire night. The following show, Kyle was selling merch before the show, but Roddy didn't. And I gotta say the reaction was noticeably quieter of KOR than it was for Roddy that evening. A few shows later there's Roddy hanging with the Bucks. The Bucks were being The Bucks hanging with all the fans, but even tho Roddy was just there with them, he didn't interact. In fact he blew me off and so many others. That night, he got the strongest reaction of the night.

It just comes down to why you watch wrestling. From a business perspective. If I was the booker. I'd never want my guys at the top of the card mingling with fans, but as a fan I'd be disappointed if they ever stopped doing it. Casual fans on the other hand, do watch to see stars so don't ever expect to grow your business past a certain point if you're gonna allow wrestlers socializing with fans. It's a double edged sword with no right answer. But I do agree with Joe and Rich's assessment on this matter. Stars hang out with stars. But I don't watch for stars, even though I know the difference between who is one and who isn't. Sami Callihan (huge fan, but not a star) (Kazuchika Okada, megastar)

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri May 12, 2017 5:51 pm

phenom951 wrote:Since the hot topic of discussion appears to be whether or not fraternizing with fans kills the star aura of a wrestler I'll weigh in and say I'm completely in agreement with Joe in that it does kill the aura of being a star. What makes a true star/celeb is that they're not like everyone else, not like us fans who pay to see them. And every time a wrestler hangs out and mingles with the rest of us, we start looking at them more and more like just regular guys. That being said, fans like myself and other newsletter/smart mark fans etc. don't watch wrestling primarily to see "stars" we watch to see great matches, analyze shit, and because we all secretly want to be a part of the business so the fact that wrestlers make themselves so available to us at shows like PWG, AAW, etc. is an absolute draw.

I used to love going to PWG and picking Chris Hero's brain about the business and what he loves about being a pro wrestler etc. so as a fan I love this aspect of going to an indy show. That being said one show in particular I remember being at a few years back, literally every wrestler was in the ring puching merch and taking picks. All but Roderick Strong and Kyle O'Reilly who were working the main event that night. And those guys I gotta tell you the second they came out there was a big fight feel, because it'd be the only time we ever see them the entire night. The following show, Kyle was selling merch before the show, but Roddy didn't. And I gotta say the reaction was noticeably quieter of KOR than it was for Roddy that evening. A few shows later there's Roddy hanging with the Bucks. The Bucks were being The Bucks hanging with all the fans, but even tho Roddy was just there with them, he didn't interact. In fact he blew me off and so many others. That night, he got the strongest reaction of the night.

It just comes down to why you watch wrestling. From a business perspective. If I was the booker. I'd never want my guys at the top of the card mingling with fans, but as a fan I'd be disappointed if they ever stopped doing it. Casual fans on the other hand, do watch to see stars so don't ever expect to grow your business past a certain point if you're gonna allow wrestlers socializing with fans. It's a double edged sword with no right answer. But I do agree with Joe and Rich's assessment on this matter. Stars hang out with stars. But I don't watch for stars, even though I know the difference between who is one and who isn't. Sami Callihan (huge fan, but not a star) (Kazuchika Okada, megastar)
This is really good insight and I largely agree. I have participated in chats with wrestlers before and after shows, during intermission, etc. and its great. Some guys are awesome to talk to and have a lot to bring to the table (sometimes literally :lol: ) but I'm all for main eventers and those in stories being held off. If it means you take a little dent in merch money for the night, so be it. The next time you're down the card or out of the big story, feel free. Maybe even after the show but I get a little uneasy with guys main eventing against one another in a big time match standing side-by-side an hour before their match.

It shouldn't bother me, but it does.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri May 12, 2017 6:10 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:
BoxingRobes wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:I actually really enjoy the merch table culture of US indies. It's a point of appeal for me. You guys talk about humanizing vignettes of a guy like roddy strong yet when you interact with the actual human is diminishes their star?

A lot of wrestling fans are not capable of handling this dynamic with tact and grace (via being weirdos with little emotional and social IQ).

I have a greater rooting interest in guys like Elgin and David Starr bc I was able to talk briefly with them at limitless. I don't see this as a bad thing. My major issue with it is weirdo wrestling fans treating Indy wrestlers as rent a friends


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Look at the world of real professional sports. Each individual has their own pretty awesome human story whether they are the token family man or they are the humble beginning come-from-nothing types or they come from a lineage of former athletes.

However, you don't see Tom Brady before and after a Patriots game hocking #12 jerseys, shirtsies, and 8x12s and fraternizing with fans unless its as he is rushing to the team bus. You don't see them having this open door policy to fans for "unlimited access" around events. Sure, they have mandatory stuff in the off-season, but its not like in wrestling where they are out there hustling like carnies.
The scale and magnitude of their stardom isn't even in the same stratosphere. A lot of people follow Indy wrestling because they enjoy engaging with the performers via social media or IRL.

Matt Riddle has increased his star by being this charming man of the people. He acts like he is the avatar for all these wrestling nerds and they eat it up. Chris Hero did this too. I wanted nothing more than to bump forearms with the man. His walkout has a specific connection with that fans and he makes sure everyone who wants a forearm bump gets one so they can take that home and keep it with them.

Joe and Rich are correct that certain acts should not take this approach. (Pentagon being a great example).


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The same is true for college football, man. The players and coaches are off-limits to the media and the people. When they go to the stadium, they are rushed in like stars, greeted by the people, and only after the games as they rush to the bus are they given autos.

Football is much better at making stars then wrestling, FWIW...at all levels.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by phenom951 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:28 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:

This is really good insight and I largely agree. I have participated in chats with wrestlers before and after shows, during intermission, etc. and its great. Some guys are awesome to talk to and have a lot to bring to the table (sometimes literally :lol: ) but I'm all for main eventers and those in stories being held off. If it means you take a little dent in merch money for the night, so be it. The next time you're down the card or out of the big story, feel free. Maybe even after the show but I get a little uneasy with guys main eventing against one another in a big time match standing side-by-side an hour before their match.

It shouldn't bother me, but it does.
Completely agreed. At the last show you have Zack Sabre and Marty Scurll pushing their merch, and like 5 feet away behind them you have Chuck Taylor doing the same. Chuckie T and Marty had a street fight in the main later that night because they're in a hot feud with the Best Friends . They can't sell me on hating each other in that match because they were just hanging out earlier and no one was throwing a punch, or incensed to get their hands on one another. They should be selling that they can't stand being in the same room with each other. Granted in PWG none of that shit matters in the long run because more often than not the crowd there goes along with the program. Very rarely do you see a guy getting booed who isn't working heel and vice-versa. It bothers me too, even tho it shouldn't so you're not alone Kraetch. Then again there's 3 fucking merch windows. Before the show, intermission and after the show. Have the guys feuding attend separate ones so you don't have those issues.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Your Questions!

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:42 pm

I see Japan as the place that still retains that star aura for me. Via them being the other, and distance and lack of access. So i can have my cake and eat it too. Access and humanize guys on US indies while star power and intrigue remains in Japan.




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