VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:22 pm

Topics on this week's Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast include Ring of Honor's 15th Anniversary PPV, NJPW's New Japan Cup, Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii, RingKampf vs. South Pacific Power Trip and the uncertain future of Japan's Wrestle-1 promotion.

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VOW: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2017/0 ... wrestle-1/
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suplexberry
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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by suplexberry » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:37 pm

I'm just gonna comment on the first hour since I'm only able to listen to half of the show today. Absolutely loved you guys talking PROGRESS so had to comment asap. I kinda hope the discussion inspires some folks to check it out because it's a great, solid, well-booked promotion that has done maybe the best independent wrestling storyline in the past 5 years. Joe is absolutely right that a lot of their stars would probably not translate well outside, but I think up and down the card there's also talent who could/will eventually, and a lot of talent whose best work will probably always be in this promotion (Will Ospreay).

As somebody who's been lucky enough to visit both Reseda and Electric Ballroom, I would say the atmosphere is very comparable. I wasn't at PROGRESS when some absolutely nutty storyline thing happened, which would be the ideal (anything involving Jimmy Havoc, or something like the recent Ospreay turn would've been the ultimate experience), but still, fantastic time, totally lost my voice. I can recommend both, though considering how hard it can be to get tickets, that recommendation might be moot.

Great to hear TK Cooper had made such an impression on Joe because seeing him develop in PROGRESS, him getting really good is actually a very recent development. Case in point: when I saw him in May last year he was a pre-lim guy and did not do much in the match. The act with Dahlia has always been entertaining, though, and I think she's a big reason why they're so good with their characters - she's just a natural performer. Also learned from a recent podcast that Travis Banks actually had a hand in training both of them. Travis is a surefire singles star, he's all intensity, but I'm definitely starting to think TK is not far behind. WALTER is Europe's worst kept secret, he is superb yet almost nobody ever talks about it. I believe he is also a trainer at wXw.

I wanna see the Kraetsch Seven-to-Eight Man Dream Scramble now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:59 pm

I think what was so exciting about TK Cooper's performance is that he finally matched the ring work with the character work, which has always been top level. He was just so damn great in that match.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Danwaka » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:03 pm

Just got to the Open Casket Funerals.

Never change, Joe.

Never change.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by supersonic » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:18 pm

You two must hate the WM14 main event swerve.

Is Progress the closest thing currently to golden age ROH for booking, storytelling, and roster depth?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by throwstuff165 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:16 pm

Been looking forward to hearing y'all talk about SPPT vs Ring Kampf since it was mentioned on Twitter a few weeks ago. I've been banging the drum for WALTER since his match with Chris Hero at Super Strong Style 16 last year, which I thought was easily the best match of the whole tournament. Fantastic wrestler and it's good to see that it's finally getting noticed more. This was my first exposure to Dieter and I came away extremely impressed. He's got quite a presence to him and he's silky smooth with his work.

It's also great that TK Cooper had such a showing in the match, because he's always been a guy who's sneakily good in the ring. It's just that he spends so much time doing his shtick with Dahlia that it's easy to forget. It's an awesome shtick, but it does concern me a little when you look at a guy like Chuck Taylor who's been so good as a comedy wrestler for his whole career that it's hurt his booking opportunities elsewhere despite the fact that he's also a great serious worker. Luckily, it doesn't seem to be going that direction for him. PROGRESS has done a good job establishing him as a giant doofus who can actually get things done when he gets serious.

It says a lot when Travis Banks, who is obviously very good, was the least impressive and least memorable piece of that match by a pretty fair margin.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:26 pm

Danwaka wrote:Just got to the Open Casket Funerals.

Never change, Joe.

Never change.
Joe Lanza's not changin.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:32 pm

supersonic wrote:You two must hate the WM14 main event swerve.

Is Progress the closest thing currently to golden age ROH for booking, storytelling, and roster depth?
The wrestling isn't nearly as good (at least up & down the card), the roster isn't nearly as deep, but I'd say the booking/storytelling is just as good (and probably better), but in a different way.

As I said on the show, I think 95-97 ECW is the best comp. Like ECW, some of the talent is indieriffic, but just about everybody is over. They get the most out of everybody on the roster, and again, like ECW, they accentuate the positives in people. The crowds help a ton. There are some acts that wouldn't get over in other places, but that's a testament to the booking. The music is a major part of it too, again, just like ECW.

I wouldn't go into it expecting a golden era ROH experience. RevPro is closer to that.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:36 pm

Disagree on the minor stuff "doesn't matter" stuff with regard to Gedo's often questionable booking of undercard things. A truly elite booker makes everything as good as it can be because everything matters. I don't watch Dragon Gate, but I've heard that the person who books it is pretty much Japan's most intricate and subtle booker at all levels of the card. That's what I think is what separates excellent from very good.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:55 pm

EvanDeadlySins wrote:Disagree on the minor stuff "doesn't matter" stuff with regard to Gedo's often questionable booking of undercard things. A truly elite booker makes everything as good as it can be because everything matters. I don't watch Dragon Gate, but I've heard that the person who books it is pretty much Japan's most intricate and subtle booker at all levels of the card. That's what I think is what separates excellent from very good.
Of course it matters, I have my gripes like everyone else, it just doesn't matter as much in the context of the bigger picture. He's an excellent top program booker who uses his undercard to slowly build guys up while not giving anything away. He's not a great booker in terms of exciting cards top to bottom or intricate mid card title programs. At the end of the day, if I'm analyzing business I'll take the guy who create stars and books money programs over the guy who books top to bottom in a more compelling fashion. If business doesn't matter to you, you'll take the opposite. We like to break down both.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by DXvsNWO » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:11 am

I think what make this particular episode of the Flagship really enjoyable (for me, at least) was that there was barely anything WWE talk, if at all. Yes, they're the big elephant in the room that needs to be talked about, and there are times where you can't ignore them, but it was honestly refreshing to hear very little WWE talk this week, especially this close to 'Mania. In particular, I really enjoyed the discussion on PROGRESS. I'm still far behind as far as the Chapters go (the next one for me is Chapter 10), but I can't wait to check out this SPPT vs. Ringkampf match when the time comes.

Speaking of Ringkampf, I might have mentioned this in the wXw thread (and you guys brought him up briefly), but Timothy Thatcher fits so well with this group. He teamed with WALTER during last year's World Tag Team League, and he was a lot easier to watch in that environment. I believe Ringkampf is still working with Christian Jakobi (the heel authority figure, last time I checked), and while they all seemed to play that role of "heel henchmen" very well, Thatcher especially fit in that role. He definitely fits in with wXw and Ringkampf a lot better than he does with the current EVOVLE product (just based on my limited experience with watching the wXw product).
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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:00 am

Joe Lanza wrote:I think what was so exciting about TK Cooper's performance is that he finally matched the ring work with the character work, which has always been top level. He was just so damn great in that match.
I 100% agree. Cooper had always been a character guy and in this match he worked his ass off.

I loved the show opening talking about Progress. This promotion is so great.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:04 am

Joe's point about Dahlia Black couldn't be more true. She is such a huge part of SPPT's act. She gets heat, she takes a bump and gets comeuppance. Whether her boys win or lose.

Punisher/ment/whatever Martinez is all upside. If Lanza's driving the GOD train I'm all in on this guy. Get on board while the stocks are low.

This ROH Top Prospect Tournament looks AWFUL. Only guy I heard of in it is John Skyler, who's good but not a world beater by any means. I forgot that Kingpin was that dude's name but just by Joe and Rich's description of him I remembered I watched that terrible guy wrestle on ROH TV. What the fuck even.
Last edited by Lawsoncomedy on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by suplexberry » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 am

Joe's bold SANADA Cup win & Naito challenge is interesting because Naito always underlines the fact in promos that he has no issue with having matches against his stablemates. He specifically predicted the EVIL vs SANADA all-LIJ final, and hoped one of them would challenge him. It's this whole "I'm the real star of this promotion, and so is my stable" storyline, so technically he should be fine with the challenge. I'd be huge into this scenario, in all honesty.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Ring of Honor 15th Anniversary, Ishii/Omega, Wrestle-1 & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:34 am

Trent was awesome in that street fight. Always enjoy his work, underrated guy.

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