VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Deserving Titles, New Beginning & more!

[Rich Kraetsch]

On this week's VOW Flagship podcast: a detailed review of WWE Elimination Chamber, the concept of deserving championships, SmackDown struggles and much more in the world of WWE. We also review NJPW's The New Beginning in Osaka, where Naito vs. Elgin stands as a Match of the Year contender. Also a preview of ROH/NJPW's Honor Rising and a whole lot of silliness and off-topic banter along the way.

VOW: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2017/0 ... beginning/

phpBB [audio]

[supersonic]

14:06

[suplexberry]

I agree that not everybody 'needs' or deserves to be champion, but I think WWE's weird booking practises (top guys + blob of upper/mid/undercard guys with no real slotting happening) and history mean that everybody might as well be champion, or not be champion. Their status doesn't really change, it doesn't even change booking most of the time - some guys are kept strong, some guys aren't, regardless of where they are in the card or which belt they hold. Compare the various meaningless IC title runs to say, Roman's US title run. The women's division is still in its early days and with a long history of meaningless fuckery, where the lack of slotting really hurt them for years, which means it's even worse for them. I was hoping Becky would get a long run and then somebody would REALLY get elevated by winning the title from her, establish a women's undercard and have a wrestler rise up through those ranks. But then, that ..didn't happen.

Meltzer taking the time to point of the dropoff from teenage girls for Bayley is weird. Bayley is literally what little girls hope to be when they're teenagers (because kids always want to be older and cooler), but actual teenagers probably think she's lame as fuck. WWE doesn't want teens as much as they want kids who can be unabashed in their fandom and do not yet know how uncool wrestling is, and whose parents have deep enough pockets to buy merch. Then once those teens become older, they can probably have some kind of nostalgia for that kind of innocent fannishness that Bayley exhibits, and root for her again.

Agree with Joe that Callis is alright, doesn't add a lot but also doesn't take anything away. I rewatched both New Beginning main events with the English commentary and him and Kelly were especially on top of the story in Naito vs Elgin but they had no energy to add to the match, unlike the Japanese table always does. What I think is very heartening is this new effort put into the English translations of promos and such, though they seem to be done by a different person every day - some house show results have this brilliantly idiomatic English and then the next show is a good translation but just doesn't have the flow that some of these translations have.

[OMGlancy]

Hearing the complaints about the commentary during the Mickie James/Becky Lynch match made me so happy that I watched the show without commentary. I can't handle Mauro and the four man booth is awful, so I had the show on mute and thought the Becky vs. Mickie match was pretty good.

[noggy]

Since Satoshi Kojima lost the title on 1/4/2011, only four different guys have held the IWGP Heavyweight title (Tanahashi, Okada, Styles and Naito).

16 different guys held the WWE title in that same time period. (Miz, Cena, Punk, Mysterio, Del Rio, The Rock, Bryan, Orton, Lesnar, Rollins, Reigns, Sheamus, Triple H, Ambrose, Styles and Wyatt). Plus you have guys like Ziggler and Swagger who only held the big gold belt but get the "former WWE World Champion" label slapped on them.

A world championship is an extremely important plot device in a fictional sports league and the accomplishment means very little when so many guys have won it, including guys who are still relatively young and healthy but clearly aren't top guys (let alone money draws). WWE probably couldn't get away with just 4 guys winning the title in 6 years because of the differences in their schedule compared to NJPW but 16 different guys is a joke.

I don't have an issue with WWE devaluing other titles because WWE doesn't rely on them to draw but how they treat and World and Universal titles is so disappointing. As far as importance goes, is Kevin Owens even booked as top 5 on Raw or top 10 in WWE overall? He may as well still be Intercontinental Champion.

[Rich Kraetsch]

Hearing the complaints about the commentary during the Mickie James/Becky Lynch match made me so happy that I watched the show without commentary. I can't handle Mauro and the four man booth is awful, so I had the show on mute and thought the Becky vs. Mickie match was pretty good.

Seriously, that match would've been 10 times better had I not heard the commentary. They were telling a horrible story and it absolutely destroyed my enjoyment of the match.

[Joe Lanza]

Agree with Joe that Callis is alright, doesn't add a lot but also doesn't take anything away. I rewatched both New Beginning main events with the English commentary and him and Kelly were especially on top of the story in Naito vs Elgin but they had no energy to add to the match, unlike the Japanese table always does. What I think is very heartening is this new effort put into the English translations of promos and such, though they seem to be done by a different person every day - some house show results have this brilliantly idiomatic English and then the next show is a good translation but just doesn't have the flow that some of these translations have.

The biggest critique I have for Kelly & Callous is energy. Kelly was flat out poor in the Suzuki/Okada match, particularly the long kneebar.

[MobbVanDam]

The last Rihanna record is SO good. Totally snubbed by a lot of people last year. It's a shame.

[Lawsoncomedy]

I get the the critique of the story for Lynch/James, but I wonder if part of it is our perception of Lynch is different than the company's. I understand why we all see Lynch as the "Ace" of Smackdown. She's the best. But outside of that inauagural title win, and being the last member of her team at Survivor Series, when has she ever been booked to be that, really? I think the company still books Lynch as more of an underdog character. Not quite like Bayley. But she certainly hasn't been pushed as hard as either Charlotte or Sasha. Becky couldn't even get past her first program with Bliss.

I kind of think The Usos and America Alpha need each other. I can't believe we've gone this long without having a PPV match between those two teams. Give them a best of 5 series or something. They'll get over in the ring. It's so obvious that its frustrating.

I think Naomi is growing into her role as champion. I've enjoyed all of the development with the women on Smackdown. They all have strengths and flaws, but at least 6/7 of them have directions.

[Lawsoncomedy]

The "You deserve it" chant will jump the shark if Goldberg gets it, for sure. That being said, I think Joe is mistaking the chicken for the egg, so to speak. People chanting "You deserve it" didn't lead to WWE treating their titles like garbage. WWE devalued their titles for years, and people decided they were going to chant "you deserve it" when someone they liked and appreciated won it.

Which is why I have no issue with the chant. Because I don't think it always literally means "you deserve it". That's just the designated chant for when the people receive a fresh and new champion that they like. Every chant jumps the shark eventually. But fans aren't great at coming up with new ways to express themselves.

Specifically with Bray, I think the fans got behind him because of this perception that he had been booked poorly, or at least below his potential. That and he missed Wrestlemania and had gone through several injuries and a whole bunch of WWE rigmarole.

But besides all of that, I agree with you guys when it comes to the booking philosophy behind the titles.

[Joe Lanza]

I get the the critique of the story for Lynch/James, but I wonder if part of it is our perception of Lynch is different than the company's. I understand why we all see Lynch as the "Ace" of Smackdown. She's the best. But outside of that inauagural title win, and being the last member of her team at Survivor Series, when has she ever been booked to be that, really? I think the company still books Lynch as more of an underdog character. Not quite like Bayley. But she certainly hasn't been pushed as hard as either Charlotte or Sasha. Becky couldn't even get past her first program with Bliss.

You could be right, but with the bold you are taking away the things that make her come off as the ace, no? Those are big reasons why I perceive her that way.

[BlizzardAcolyte]

Link to this PWE show?

It was fascinating to listen to you guys basically call EC a one-match show and compare it to PTBN's Reaction Show calling it "a very solid show" and "definitely worth your time and money". Different strokes in podcasts is always like observing different assays in progress--entertaining in a subtle way.

You know what's funny about you wanting to see Taichi disappear from the BOSJ lineups? He and TAKA are the only guys whose BOSJ matches I would bother to watch.

[achillesforever6]

Smackdown in my opioion hasn't been bad, but okay that has been overrated to hell and back. However this week's main event was a legit **** match which is unsurprising considering the talent involved.

I kind of think The Usos and America Alpha need each other. I can't believe we've gone this long without having a PPV match between those two teams. Give them a best of 5 series or something. They'll get over in the ring. It's so obvious that its frustrating.

The problem is that the Usos kept getting injured at the worst time, though Alpha getting the titles was rushed in general because of Zack Ryder getting injured

[EvanDeadlySins]

Slight correction: The New Beginning in Sapporo did not sell out/fill the building.

Notice the few excessive sections of tarping on the upper levels near the stage.

[Frank Olson]

You know what's funny about you wanting to see Taichi disappear from the BOSJ lineups? He and TAKA are the only guys whose BOSJ matches I would bother to watch.

Just to be clear - you prefer Taichi and TAKA to KUSHIDA, Ricochet, Will Ospreay, and Hiromu Takahashi?