VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

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RobViper13
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by RobViper13 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:38 am

How much money to put into production isn't really Gabe's call. That's all on his partner. Gabe can suggest anything he wants but it's not his money being spent.

TBH At this point I don't think Gabe gives two shits about how the product looks. His end game is a full-time WWE job. He just needs to keep puting together shows they approve of, follow their directions on who to use & keep them believing he's discovering talent.

I think WWE will get everything they want out of him & give him a job but I don't see him lasting in that environment. Once they have no use for him they'll cut bait and the fallout will lead to some memorable (whatever replaces twitter in a few years) moments.
"Whoa is me" - BuzzSawyer

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BoxingRobes
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:19 am

BoxingRobes wrote:Future Robes...WWE Territory and FLOSLAM takes post...
re: WWE
While the endgame may be the same, I think the WWE is going about all of this is a semi-ass backward way from my perspective right now...but then again, I ain't in the DMs right now. The WWE (RAW and SD) need to be the major leagues. NXT television its AAA affiliate, NXT touring brand its AA affiliate. Then they have these class-A ball indies around the world that begins the feeder process.

The caveat with these indies around the world...they are or should be very cheap sources of content. The 3.5M Evolve got from FLOSLAM seems like small peanuts to me when it should be the WWE providing Gabe with infrastructure, assistance and occasionally talent to run shows that are essentially CONTENT to the Network. This is what the Network should be...a content hub and these Indies should be a minimal investment, modest oversight content provider to the Network. This is essentially what Floslam is doing, but being associated with the WWE is the cherry on top that no amount of money could offset currently. That is what will get subscribers for the WWE...new, fresh content.

The same goes for whatever overseas operations they are trying to run. Similar to the way they previously used DSW/OVW/FCW when they were their developmental...small indies that start the flow of talent to the company that ran, for the most part independently, but due to their affiliation with the WWE, would get some cash for infrastructure and occasionally got some talent to book. Back then, there was no content carrot for the WWE, but these companies ran decent little businesses when they were associated with the E. Their A-ball affiliates today, should be your EVOLVE, your ICW, your (random Japanese company that is nearly broke they now subsidize), your (random Mexican Indie they dust the grime off of and subsidize)...the end result is these companies get an influx of modest cash and material to produce better content (none of this nonsense where they are shooting in a park), talent, and an outlet for their content...for the WWE, its excessively cheap content in the grand scheme. There just needs to be some better structure to this money pit that is the WWEs developmental system. The goal is to get content and make money with new subs in non American markets...UK, Japan, Mexico with the goal of China are first on the docket...I don't get why they are going about it in less efficient way.

re: FLOSLAM
They do not have the know how give the direction you guys were talking about in the podcast this week. These MF'rs were asking people on Twitter about possible content providers (Indie groups). They won't hit their subscriber numbers...it doesn't take a genius to know that...EVOLVE gets like 300 people at their shows. You now need 10x the number of them to subscribe...for $20? Nope.

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BradPTBN
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by BradPTBN » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:31 am

RobViper13 wrote:How much money to put into production isn't really Gabe's call. That's all on his partner. Gabe can suggest anything he wants but it's not his money being spent.

TBH At this point I don't think Gabe gives two shits about how the product looks. His end game is a full-time WWE job. He just needs to keep putting together shows they approve of, follow their directions on who to use & keep them believing he's discovering talent.
These are really good points and segues into another point I wanted to piggyback on from the show:

The WWE Network is competition for FloSlam and their quest for subscribers, and with some of these entities WWE is working with or adding (rumored) to their network, they are direct competition. When the WWE purges talent from Evolve, if i'm the FloSlam executive, I'm pissed. So Gabe is serving two masters - feeding the WWE talent (and angling for a job as Rob outlines) and working the marks at FloSlam that WWN is the flagship to carry their network.

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cbacon87
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by cbacon87 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:56 am

It's entirely possible that Gabe is just really bad at all this kinda stuff.

There's nothing he can really do about losing buildings and that's happened a bunch in his post-ROH tenure, but clearly finding attractive new options has been a problem. I feel like people would point out on Twitter that they generally did a bad job advertising shows locally, but I don't have proof of that or know if that's changed. Back before they started to gain traction in recent years, I was always critical of Gabe running across the country when the demand wasn't there instead of building a local base and getting some loyal fans, like basically every other start-up indie that size would have done. I also used to criticise EVOLVE in particular for not having a nailed down look and identity, so maybe the image side of things isn't Gabe's thing either. Maybe he looks at these outdoor venues and bars and thinks "that'd be different", the same way he looks at booking Darby Allin.

All of which is to say, clearly Gabe's asset is booking shows and finding workers. That goes without saying. I don't know how much help he had with regards to finding buildings and promoting with ROH, but presumably it was more than he does now and it was a different landscape back then anyway. And even then I don't think ROH was ever aesthetically cutting-edge (at least they had a colour-scheme). So maybe the extra money and attention and whatnot aren't motivating factors because that's never been his motivation and he, or somebody else, needs to hire someone to take care of that stuff.

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DXvsNWO
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by DXvsNWO » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:44 pm

On the FloSlam discussion, I totally understand the criticisms made on the Flagship Podcast and here in this thread (I think they're all valid criticisms and I don't disagree with them). With regards to the venue used for Style Battle/FIP, it wasn't good at all (we can all agree on that), and made the shows feel very minor league, but for me, as long as the wrestling itself is good to great, it doesn't matter to me quite as much. Now I'm not trying to dismiss the venue issue from those recent WWN shows, I'm just saying that the venue was less of an issue for me on Style Battle compared to FIP (because Style Battle was actually a good show). Aesthetics do matter (especially to casual fans, like you guys mentioned, who might be trying to get into indie wrestling or just other wrestling that's not WWE), but for me personally, if the wrestling is good enough, I can somewhat ignore aesthetics.

Also, the discussion on the Flagship Podcast about the WWE Network having everything you want (a one stop shop, as Rich described it) reminded me of that story where Vince McMahon questioned why someone would watch comedy shows when WWE has comedy (I'm sure people know the story I'm talking about, but I don't remember the specifics). Why go elsewhere when WWE has everything you would want?
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Re: VOW Flagship: Kenny Omega, WrestleMania Changes & more!

Post by phenom951 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:44 pm

DXvsNWO wrote:On the FloSlam discussion, I totally understand the criticisms made on the Flagship Podcast and here in this thread (I think they're all valid criticisms and I don't disagree with them). With regards to the venue used for Style Battle/FIP, it wasn't good at all (we can all agree on that), and made the shows feel very minor league, but for me, as long as the wrestling itself is good to great, it doesn't matter to me quite as much. Now I'm not trying to dismiss the venue issue from those recent WWN shows, I'm just saying that the venue was less of an issue for me on Style Battle compared to FIP (because Style Battle was actually a good show). Aesthetics do matter (especially to casual fans, like you guys mentioned, who might be trying to get into indie wrestling or just other wrestling that's not WWE), but for me personally, if the wrestling is good enough, I can somewhat ignore aesthetics.

Also, the discussion on the Flagship Podcast about the WWE Network having everything you want (a one stop shop, as Rich described it) reminded me of that story where Vince McMahon questioned why someone would watch comedy shows when WWE has comedy (I'm sure people know the story I'm talking about, but I don't remember the specifics). Why go elsewhere when WWE has everything you would want?
Story you're thinking of I believe was Freddie Prince Jr. telling the story of watching a Richard Pryor show on the WWE Jet, Vince walks by and asks him about it then basically tells Freddie "Why don't you put on Monday Night Raw, that has comedy in it too DAMMIT!!" Ok, I added the DAMMIT but still.

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