VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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RyanGenerico
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by RyanGenerico » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:08 am

Great breakdown of the event! I was thirsty for this episode to get posted as I felt like WK11 exceeded expectations on an unreal level (particularly the last 4 matches), and needed to have conversation vicariously by listening to you two. Omega and Okada had me literally on the edge of my seat for the last 15 minutes. I was surprised to see how long the match actually was, it felt shorter to me.

Also, maybe it's because I've only immersed myself in NJPW for the past couple months leading up to WK11, and therefore missed a lot of the story, but Tana & Naito didn't do much for me. It was fun enough to watch, but the leg vs leg story didn't intrigue me much. It was awesome to see Naito retain, though. I thought they might do a sweep of title changes all night, and with Tana's new theme I thought he was on pace to win it.

Excited to follow NJPW and VOW much more closely in 2017!


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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:48 am

I really enjoyed Lanza's review of the show. A great breakdown of the show, especially the efforts of Romero, Cody and Juice and the greatness of Okada and Omega.

I don't think the dick measuring thing is that weird, but I'd never heard any guys I know mention that girls had wanted to do that, playfully or not. But now I wanna ask. Gonna figure out a way to do so.

The burial of Adam Cole made me sad. I feel like the guy works hard. He's just not a super worker. He's more of a character guy, and if you're not into that you won't be as into him. As far as performances, his series with O'reilly pulled the best out of him.

The O'reilly/Cole feud was always gonna culminate at this past Final Battle. They set it up all the way back at Final Battle 2015, where Cole and O'Reilly tore the house down (one of Cole's better performances). O'Reilly winning the title was the right story, sucks that he didn't resign. Was looking forward to his run.

Loved Lanza's passion about Ricochet/Ospreay. Imagine if we had that on this show, could've been 5 straight amazing matches. Obviously we already have an embarrassment of riches, so I can't be that upset, but I 100% agree. The idea that Japanese crowd wouldn't be into it is asinine.

Toru Yano stinks. ishii is so wasted. Why couldn't Yoshi Hashi and ishii have won the belts, to give Hashi a little reward for being so great last year? Why Yano? WHY???


I wish more attention was brought to Ospreay going directly after Shibata on Dash. Was my favorite part of that whole show.

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:13 am

I'm not surprised the poll was that lopsided. Greatest match I ever saw.

Joe's point about not needing to shave the beginning because it built to the frenetic pace at the end has to be heard by every pro wrestling fan and reviewer out there. I feel like I see this criticism for main events all over the place where its not warranted, and not even for this match specifically, since it was so universally praised. Outside of NOAH's "let's go 30 for no reason" main events, most great main events start slower to build to the greatness towards the end. The problem is there's so much wrestling and people have no patience or attention span for them. Not every match can be a sprint. I like my main events like I like my booking. To build.

Also loved the comparison of this match to a 3 act play. It truly was. I'm sure Omega thought of this match the same way when they structured it.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:08 pm

I've never ordered Blue Apron, but I've used several of their recipes...and if you're looking for something quick and usually delicious...their recipes hit dat spot.

Image

/That one was free, Joe.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:11 pm

Also, speaking of Cream Soda and "store brand" items...perhaps only Joe knows about this...

WEIS White Birch Beer is the champagne of sodas and a store brand item. Top 5 Soda all time. Just saying.

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Leo C
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by Leo C » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:12 pm

After listening to the show, I'm all in on this Kanemaru NJPW run. I hadn't put two and two together on him going from a dying AJPW to New Japan in a little over a year; now I have great respect for him. He's indeed a great "worker".

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:35 pm

I know I say it every other week, but you guys are awesome. I hope you never stop doing that because you have the best wrestling podcast in the world.

2017 could be and should be the best in-ring and business year for the modern era NJPW. Starting from making njpwworld easier for foreign people, english website & more commentary (I mean Kelly & someone will be in Sapporo so I hope this is going to be a thing for all major shows now), to running shows in US, more buzz than ever (look at r/sc since WK, it feels like NJPW is the most talked about subject by far), some great stories already 7 days into 2017 (Omega, Shibata's push FINALLY on horizon, Suzuki Gun back). Also roster is way deeper than last year.

Main event scene: Okada, Naito, Tanahashi (not injured this time, another very interesting story with Tana losing all the big matches lately), Omega. Shibata and Suzuki will probably count as well. Kota Ibushi IF he signs but just like Joe said, you never know with this crazy motherfucker.

Upper-midcard: Goto, Ishii, Elgin, Makabe, SANADA, EVIL

Now look at the Juniors:

KUSHIDA, Hiromu, Dragon Lee, Ospreay, Ricochet. Add very solid to great workers like Kanemaru, BUSHI, RPG Vice, Bucks or Taguchi (I love him for whatever reason), ACH if he works.

With KES, there are also 4-5 legit tag teams now. G.B.H, G.O.D, Ishii & Yano (fuck Yano though, why just not give Tacos the place here), I mean you could always do something like Elgin & Juice.

What a year this is going to be, I am ready for the ride. No one knows where this will go in 362 days and that's awesome. Well, Okada is probably going to main event WK again but that's obvious.

Also I agree about Adam Cole, I can't stand the guy. For whatever reason he seems to get a lot of love on polish forums but for me he's the most overrated wrestler on earth, glad to hear that other people have similar feelings that I do.

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mlev76
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by mlev76 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:37 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:Also, speaking of Cream Soda and "store brand" items...perhaps only Joe knows about this...

WEIS White Birch Beer is the champagne of sodas and a store brand item. Top 5 Soda all time. Just saying.
I was expecting an east coaster like Joe to mention Dr. Brown's, but maybe he's not a deli guy.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by ayaashm » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:07 pm

Rainmaker_F7 wrote:I know I say it every other week, but you guys are awesome. I hope you never stop doing that because you have the best wrestling podcast in the world.
Lanza is a geek.
Twitter : https://twitter.com/drunkonchai/

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Tigerkinney
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by Tigerkinney » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:27 pm

Rainmaker_F7 wrote:Also I agree about Adam Cole, I can't stand the guy. For whatever reason he seems to get a lot of love on polish forums but for me he's the most overrated wrestler on earth, glad to hear that other people have similar feelings that I do.
Whilst I wouldn't go as far as not standing Cole, I too have tried to see what all the fuss is about and I've always come away underwhelmed. I'm with Joe & Rich, in the fact that I don't think he's a bad pro-wrestler but he's someone you never feel is giving it 100% yet alone the cliched extra 10%. There's some talent obviously there but for me he might be the most over-pushed wrestler outside of the WWE machine.

Anyway the whole dick measuring contest bit during the discussion about Goto and Shibata had me in stitches, and though I'm a big anime fan, I wasn't offended by Lanza referring to the Tiger Mask contest as the 'cartoon' match. There is some anime which would be wrong to dismiss as 'cartoons'....if you've ever seen Ghost In The Shell or a Satoshi Kon film, then they're anime that definitely ain't cartoon's for kids. But I'm pretty sure the Tiger Mask W anime is a 'shonen' which is anime aimed primarily at 8-15 year old boys...so referring to it as the cartoon anime, isn't exactly inaccurate.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:24 pm

2017 Hiroshi Tanahashi = 2017 John Cena...but they are taking different approaches to the same gimmick.

Both are the aging aces that don't think it is their time to take a back seat to anybody. Tanahashi has the goofy overcompensating dad angle to this gimmick while John Cena has the "BECAUSE I'M JOHN CENA" very serious lean to it.

Same gimmick, same stage of each guy's career...but two different slants, but both, to me, equally engaging right now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by suplexberry » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:53 am

I love the Cena Tanahashi 2017 parallels. Both have a significant cringe "just let it go grandpa" vibe to them but both are still appealing to their (significant) fanbases. I think if you're a fan of either you can still attend shows and root for the guy, but if you want to be cool, you're buying the shirt of the next generation and also cheering for them, and I like that duality. It'll be interesting to see who lends more help to the younger generation - like Joe's tweet about Tanahashi making SANADA a star at next year's Dome would be pretty great, whereas in WWE the reluctance to let Cena fade is something I see happening.

Tanahashi is too much of a traditional babyface to be like "because I'm Tanahashi, fuck you, that's why", whereas Cena brings that edge to him on Talking Smack.

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BoxingRobes
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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:53 am

If Joe is the Kenta Kobashi of sex...Rich is the Jack Gallagher.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by phenom951 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:40 pm

I may be the only superfan of Cole on this whole forum looks like. That being said he's just an acquired taste. He doesn't mean dick to people who value match quality over everything else. He's more of a character guy. His promos are main event level, his look and the way he carries himself is just the same. And he's a solid worker. He's never gonna be the guy who has consistent 4 star matches, but his matches peak higher than say a guy like Finn Balor who is a consistent 4 star performer who never peaks in the MOTYC level. It all comes down to whether or not you're invested in the kind of character he plays. I for one just find him entertaining.

His biggest strengths are in the build of matches. He's always fantastic at simply being the heel in the big matches. His stuff doesn't always land. But when it does, I think the guy is believable and great in his offense. I loved the Jay Lethal match at DBD. And the KOR match on WM Weekend i thought was a top level performance from both men.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Review

Post by mlev76 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:30 pm

Your points about how a casual/WK only viewer wouldn't appreciate some of the matches as a loyal NJPW follower definitely rang true for me. I thought everything but the cartoon match and the Juice/Cody match was good and thought the Jr., IC and Main Event were all above 4 stars. But, many of the other matches you guys loved I liked less and that was clearly due to my diminished interest in the product this year. With that said, your passion has made me more interested in following more closely again, so if I find the time, I will try to reinvest this year.

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