VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

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powerfulmgp
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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by powerfulmgp » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:32 am

I can see putting the Bucks on the ballot when the time comes, but I don't see the case for them getting in.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by powerfulmgp » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:22 am

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:We talk about athlete's bodies like they are stuck with them. What's to stop Sasha from hitting the weight room/tupp life hard and adding some lean weight? Would adding 20 lbs of muscle affect her in ring speed that much? It may improve her explosion anyway.
In main roster WWE, it is super difficult to go through that transformation without, well, aid. We all remember Cody Rhodes coming back from a Mexico trip jacked out of his mind but for the most part they have time to maintain their bodies but rarely transform them. Likewise, does she look like someone that even has the body structure to add on that much mass?
Even if she wanted to, Vince isn't paying any of those girls enough to get on a really good growth hormone stack. Protein powder and crossfit are only going to get you so far.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by powerfulmgp » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:31 am

The titles in WWE have been merged and split so many times that you can make up whatever lineage you need to fit the narrative. As someone with a strong appreciation for the history of this business, it drives me crazy.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by suplexberry » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:23 am

Appreciated the Sasha vs Charlotte HIAC conversation a lot. Maybe it's the fact that it's in podcast form so you guys can make points and then elaborate them, which makes for genuinely good, balanced discussion. A lot of conversations about women's wrestling seem to happen on platforms where truncated opinions can come off as blunt one-liners, which in return makes people misunderstand your point, accusations of sexism etc. It doesn't help that there's plenty of fans who in fact are sexist and will bend over backwards to find reasons for women not to do X Y or Z, and on the other hand you've got supporters of women's wrestling who get trigger-happy with accusations and defensive and dismissive, so conversations about something as simple as this can get pretty bad on places like Twitter. I agree with Joe that it's been a heated feud but the stip is forced, but this is modern WWE and the stip usually is forced.

I think the thing about women's main event feeling like a deserved conclusion to a logical build requires the kind of planning they don't seem to do a lot of these days. Plus they're just so eager to pat themselves on the back for making minor incremental steps after decades of degrading sexism. WWE gonna WWE.

God, how did nobody think to ask what Joe thought of the BONER/Yoshitatsu match from Taiwan. We're all idiots.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by Danwaka » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:13 pm

powerfulmgp wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:We talk about athlete's bodies like they are stuck with them. What's to stop Sasha from hitting the weight room/tupp life hard and adding some lean weight? Would adding 20 lbs of muscle affect her in ring speed that much? It may improve her explosion anyway.
In main roster WWE, it is super difficult to go through that transformation without, well, aid. We all remember Cody Rhodes coming back from a Mexico trip jacked out of his mind but for the most part they have time to maintain their bodies but rarely transform them. Likewise, does she look like someone that even has the body structure to add on that much mass?
Even if she wanted to, Vince isn't paying any of those girls enough to get on a really good growth hormone stack. Protein powder and crossfit are only going to get you so far.
Pretty sure the women get paid more than the men to account for stuff like make-up, hair, etc... I remember seeing something about it RE NXT. So if he wanted to, they'd get paid even more.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:06 pm

I don't know if you guys were referring to the correction I left on the Observer forums last week, but it's pronounced Hee-Row-Key (just listen to it during ring introductions sometime).
Basically, despite it being spelled Hi69, it's still thought of as HIROKI.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by abrasiveobelisksa » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:50 am

How do you pronounce the numbers in Japanese? Because I remember Apollo 55 being like Apollo-Go-Go, so I want to know the rest.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by powerfulmgp » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:31 pm

abrasiveobelisksa wrote:How do you pronounce the numbers in Japanese? Because I remember Apollo 55 being like Apollo-Go-Go, so I want to know the rest.
Apollo Go-Go translates into Apollo 5-5

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by skeach101 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:25 am

OK. I need to chime in on Joe's reasons for why Omega should win at WK11... because I agree 100%, but I also believe this argument can be taken a step further.

From a booking standpoint, there is nowhere really interesting to go with Okada following the dome.

Following WK11, if Okada wins, they'll probably set something up for Okada at New Beginnings. This is usually is a rematch from the person that the champ won the belt from (like in 2015), or someone they lost to in the G1 (2016). For Okada's G1 losses, those options would be Bad Luck Fale, Marufuji, Ishii.... or maybe Tanahashi. Naito would be the person that could ask for a rematch.

I feel like they've run through all of Okada's good matchups right now.

Tanahashi's out because they're not gonna waste that on New Beginnings, Marufuji was KoPW, Fale would be a bore to see again so soon, Ishii is a stablemate, so they usually don't do that. As far as Naito, I don't see them doing that again so soon either. It's possible, but unlikely.

To me, from a long-term booking standpoint, Omega just makes more sense as well. Omega is still less than a year in the heavyweight division. If Omega wins, there are TONS of really interesting booking possibilities.
  • Omega vs. Ishii, as Ishii challenges to avenge his stablemate
    Omega vs. Elgin, based on Elgin's G1 win over Omega.
    Omega vs. Shibata. based on Shibata's G1 win
    Omega vs. Tanahashi, in the rematch 1 year in the making.
To me, that has always been the way to predict when a long title reign is ending; when the matchups become stale. To me, that's where we are at with Okada. I think Okada needs to get out of the title picture until some other contenders are built up. When Omega, Shibata, SANADA, and Suzuki (when he comes back) are in the title picture, I would say that's the time to bring Okada back in.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by skeach101 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:33 am

Also... with regard to the little bit of... "speculation" at the end.... when do they usually announce the G1 locations? I remember the cool little promotional video that they always have in WK, but I don't think that was when they had the video that "bounced around Japan" showing the dates for the G1... was that Invasion Attack?
Last edited by skeach101 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:38 am

skeach101 wrote:OK. I need to chime in on Joe's reasons for why Omega should win at WK11... because I agree 100%, but I also believe this argument can be taken a step further.

From a booking standpoint, there is nowhere really interesting to go with Okada following the dome.

Following WK11, if Okada wins, they'll probably set something up for Okada at New Beginnings. This is usually is a rematch from the person that the champ won the belt from (like in 2015), or someone they lost to in the G1 (2016). For Okada's G1 losses, those options would be Bad Luck Fale, Marufuji, Ishii.... or maybe Tanahashi. Naito would be the person that could ask for a rematch.

I feel like they've run through all of Okada's good matchups right now.

Tanahashi's out because they're not gonna waste that on New Beginnings, Marufuji was KoPW, Fale would be a bore to see again so soon, Ishii is a stablemate, so they usually don't do that. As far as Naito, I don't see them doing that again so soon either. It's possible, but unlikely.

To me, from a long-term booking standpoint, Omega just makes more sense as well. Omega is still less than a year in the heavyweight division. If Omega wins, there are TONS of really interesting booking possibilities.
  • Omega vs. Ishii, as Ishii challenges to avenge his stablemate
    Omega vs. Elgin, based on Elgin's G1 win over Omega.
    Omega vs. Shibata. based on Shibata's G1 win
    Omega vs. Tanahashi, in the rematch 1 year in the making.
To me, that has always been the way to predict when a long title reign is ending; when the matchups become stale. To me, that's where we are at with Okada. I think Okada needs to get out of the title picture until some other contenders are built up. When Omega, Shibata, SANADA, and Suzuki (when he comes back) are in the title picture, I would say that's the time to bring Okada back in.
Good post, I'm stealing some of this

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by JamieOD » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:44 am

skeach101 wrote:Also... with relation to the little bit of... "speculation" at the end.... when do they usually announce the G1 locations? I remember the cool little promotional video that they always have in WK, but I don't think that was when they had the video that "bounced around Japan" showing the dates for the G1... was that Invasion Attack?
Yeah Invasion Attack is when they reveal the G1 schedule.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by Garuda » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:13 pm

Plus there's the general fact that if they're planning for Okada to lead the company for another decade - and you would because the only prohibitions to that would be unforseeable - I imagine it would be policy to NOT have massive unbroken title reigns.

It's like cardio; you have to pace yourself, and in this case that'd be by regularly putting over challengers. Okada's a top guy and doesn't need a long title reign to prove anything, so you're only risking fan burnout if you give him the strap for a massive amount of time and expect him to still hold it regularly for double-digit years.

Naturally they could and probably will at some point choose a story direction for him that doesn't involve the primary title for that exact reason. But for sure they're putting over Omega at WK11, and they'll keep putting people over him so as to keep everyone involved rejuvenated.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:42 pm

skeach101 wrote:OK. I need to chime in on Joe's reasons for why Omega should win at WK11... because I agree 100%, but I also believe this argument can be taken a step further.

From a booking standpoint, there is nowhere really interesting to go with Okada following the dome.

Following WK11, if Okada wins, they'll probably set something up for Okada at New Beginnings. This is usually is a rematch from the person that the champ won the belt from (like in 2015), or someone they lost to in the G1 (2016). For Okada's G1 losses, those options would be Bad Luck Fale, Marufuji, Ishii.... or maybe Tanahashi. Naito would be the person that could ask for a rematch.

I feel like they've run through all of Okada's good matchups right now.

Tanahashi's out because they're not gonna waste that on New Beginnings, Marufuji was KoPW, Fale would be a bore to see again so soon, Ishii is a stablemate, so they usually don't do that. As far as Naito, I don't see them doing that again so soon either. It's possible, but unlikely.

To me, from a long-term booking standpoint, Omega just makes more sense as well. Omega is still less than a year in the heavyweight division. If Omega wins, there are TONS of really interesting booking possibilities.
  • Omega vs. Ishii, as Ishii challenges to avenge his stablemate
    Omega vs. Elgin, based on Elgin's G1 win over Omega.
    Omega vs. Shibata. based on Shibata's G1 win
    Omega vs. Tanahashi, in the rematch 1 year in the making.
To me, that has always been the way to predict when a long title reign is ending; when the matchups become stale. To me, that's where we are at with Okada. I think Okada needs to get out of the title picture until some other contenders are built up. When Omega, Shibata, SANADA, and Suzuki (when he comes back) are in the title picture, I would say that's the time to bring Okada back in.
Agreed. The only match Okada has left right now is against Ishii, who beat him in G1. And the eventual Shibata match as they've kept them apart. But Omega opens up so many fresh matches. I could even see him killing some of the NJPW dads on lesser cards, the way Okada did in his first run.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Sasha Banks/Charlotte Hell in a Cell, Dragon Gate & Questions!

Post by skeach101 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:09 pm

Lawsoncomedy wrote: Agreed. The only match Okada has left right now is against Ishii, who beat him in G1. And the eventual Shibata match as they've kept them apart. But Omega opens up so many fresh matches. I could even see him killing some of the NJPW dads on lesser cards, the way Okada did in his first run.
Oh absolutely. Nagata vs. Omega is a Dontaku main event if I've ever seen one.

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