VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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Garuda
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Garuda » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:16 am

Joe Lanza wrote: Keep in mind this show was recorded before Night 13 (Ishii/Okada, Tana/Maru).
Oh, right. That's what I get for listening late.
Joe Lanza wrote:This was a great post.
That's very kind, thank you! And I've got a quick question for you since I missed the call, if you're interested.

WWE raided New Japan's talent. Kidani loves Vince, and he mimics everything he can from him. Any chance we see some aggressive NJPW talent signing from abroad or from other Japanese promotions? Do they have everyone they want? Or would that just be too against-the-grain for NJPW?

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:32 am

We've talked about this before, and I do think you will see a ripple effect if WWE continues to farm talent globally. NJPW has shown a willingness to go after non NJPW talent. We saw it to some extent with SANADA (who was a freelancer when he returned from the U.S.), and we've seen it with Ibushi & Omega being plucked from DDT. Takagi from DDT recently acknowledged that he knows his place in the pecking order and knows he will lose his best talent to NJPW or WWE or whoever else, so the smart people see the lay of the land. He's prepared for this with the great DNA system in place. They absorbed the Ibushi & Omega loses with no issue. WWE actively hunting globally changes the game for everyone.

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rollup
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by rollup » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:00 am

always wondered why western fans treat wrestling discussions as serious situations ...

and i always thought whose this Alan L'Oréal they are talking about ? turns out its Alan 4 L :lol: :lol:

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by itsberlo » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:00 pm

Garuda wrote:I've been catching up on the G1 and loving it. I respect your Marufuji MVP pick, but I'm looking at either Okada or Ishii for that slot. The former, in particular, needs to be more discussed for the Thesz/Flair after this tournament. I guess people are getting tired of him, but I think you overvalue shiny-newness if you think Naito is significantly ahead of Okada.
Totally agree with this! I have a hard time understanding why no one is talking about Okada for Thesz/Flair. He is the main eventer of one of the biggest companies in the world, he has had some remarkable matches (Tanahashi in the dome, Naito matches, Ishii and Marufuji) and NJPW is drawing quite well considering they lost Nakamura. Styles, Bullet Club in theory and only had Tanahashi for half the year thus far. The fact he is overlooked baffles me.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by itsberlo » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:19 pm

Oh and I enjoyed the Sanada matches as well.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by suplexberry » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:13 pm

It makes me happy that Europe is a growth point and getting great numbers because a lot of the European guys are just so fantastic that they deserve all the hype directed towards them, and to have more writing/podcasts lauding them as well. BritWres Roundtable has been a really welcome addition, and even though I haven't the time to fully follow a lot of the promotions, it's always great to read about them (wXw, OTT etc). I hope the scene sustains itself because there are also a lot of good newbies on the scene right now who are going to become great in a few years' time.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:06 pm

itsberlo wrote:
Garuda wrote:I've been catching up on the G1 and loving it. I respect your Marufuji MVP pick, but I'm looking at either Okada or Ishii for that slot. The former, in particular, needs to be more discussed for the Thesz/Flair after this tournament. I guess people are getting tired of him, but I think you overvalue shiny-newness if you think Naito is significantly ahead of Okada.
Totally agree with this! I have a hard time understanding why no one is talking about Okada for Thesz/Flair. He is the main eventer of one of the biggest companies in the world, he has had some remarkable matches (Tanahashi in the dome, Naito matches, Ishii and Marufuji) and NJPW is drawing quite well considering they lost Nakamura. Styles, Bullet Club in theory and only had Tanahashi for half the year thus far. The fact he is overlooked baffles me.
Okada will do well, I don't know if he'll win, but he'll do well.

There is a segment of people who have turned on him and turned hard. It's confusing to me. "He hasn't evolved" is one argument I hear, and to me it reeks of bullshit. What does that even mean? Should he totally change who he is? Go through a gimmick change? Grow wings? How has Tanahashi evolved since 2010 or so? What great evolution did Hulk Hogan undergo from 83-94? Inoki? How about Ric Flair, how did he evolve from about 1978-1993? The idea that Okada hasn't "evolved" being some sort of huge negative is the biggest crock of shit going today. I legitimately have no idea what it even means.

"Is he a heel or a face?" Who cares? Is this 1985 WWF? Fans cheer and boo who they want, and NJPW seems OK with that. We see it with Naito, we see it with The Elite, we see it with CHAOS. Another bullshit critique.

"He can't draw on his own." First of all, what does this mean? Who can? Everyone needs strong opponents. Secondly, he is a proven draw, and I'm not going to do it now, but I can list all of the instances that he has drawn, including "on his own" if I am to assume that means with very little support if challenged. It isn't very hard. You only have to go back to Dominion drawing close to 10,000 with literally NOTHING underneath the Okada/Naito match or selling out Sumo Hall for Invasion Attack with GORILLAS OF DESTINY as the semi main event. Of course, some will say Naito had everything to do with that, and while they both deserve the credit, let's not forget hat Naito was an utter and complete failure as a top guy until he came back from Mexico with somebody else's gimmick. Okada has been drawing big boy houses for years.

"He can't work". Everyone is entitled to an opinion here, but consensus says otherwise when the guy pumps out great match after great match, including the Tanahashi match that will probably win or seriously challenge for MOTY and was an all time great match, the Naito matches, the Ishii match that will also challenge for MOTY, the Maru match, etc. This is a guy that dragged the corpse of Tenryu to a great match by sacrificing his body and his face to a guy who could barely move, let alone work at a competent level, saving a potential trainwreck. And he still has a Tanahashi match in front of him and several title matches that will likely rule, too.

I think Alan said it best with the anti Okada stuff. It's a small group of people in the grand scheme. They are wrong. Ignore them.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by mlev76 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:23 pm

The whole "internet eating its own" stuff was on point and needed to be said. As was the comments about the silliness of the subtweeting culture.

I'll agree with those who said you were WAY too hard on yourself for the show a few weeks back. And I also hope all is well personally/getting better.

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soup23
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by soup23 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:06 pm

LOL at the Chad Lowe debuting on the pod last week.

Also, the build up to talking about the Dragon Gate Summer Adventure League was A+ comedy on a pro wrestling podcast.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:48 pm

The Fray Movement wrote: I actually hate that Joe and I have had such strong disagreements about things that we feel so very strongly about. Yes, it's partially my fault as I freely admit to dragging parts of it out for laughs. But I do think it's reached a point of silliness. I hate that it got to this point. There's probably no going back and in that case, it is what it is.

I haven't posted here in quite some time. It's better that way. But when I discovered I was unknowingly discussed on the audio and then received such hatred here, I felt like I should speak up. I hope this isn't deleted as I should be allowed to defend myself. If it is deleted, then I feel so, so sorry for you.
It will absolutely not be deleted.

I was asked a question in the questions thread, and I answered it as honestly as possible

I agree it has gone too far. We've talked about this privately. I said what I said on the podcast. I won't repeat myself. You know why I'm annoyed. You know I tried to squash this shit months ago. I don't like it either, but I'm just tired of it, and never seems to end. So I just go on as if you do not exist.

We don't have to like each other. I have no ill will either way. I'm over it.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:39 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:One final post and then I'll go back to just lurking...

At approx the 1:09:23 mark, Joe begins talking about a tournament that's been undercovered by this website. You can tells he's going for comedy there before heading into the Dragon Gate talk. And that's fine. But I do want to briefly mention the Scenic City Invitational from this weekend.


...that I really hated it relegated to nothing more than a punch line to a joke.

Puke.

I had a little fun with the Dragon Gate lead in. People thought it was funny. Our show is full of that type of humor.

The bold just about made me choke. What I did was a radio gag, aimed at the 2% of people who would even get it. The rest were none the wiser. You've relegated a picture of my face to a punch line on your Twitter account many, many times. So forgive me if a joke involving an indie show you liked offends your sensibilities.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:02 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:
The Fray Movement wrote: I actually hate that Joe and I have had such strong disagreements about things that we feel so very strongly about. Yes, it's partially my fault as I freely admit to dragging parts of it out for laughs. But I do think it's reached a point of silliness. I hate that it got to this point. There's probably no going back and in that case, it is what it is.

I haven't posted here in quite some time. It's better that way. But when I discovered I was unknowingly discussed on the audio and then received such hatred here, I felt like I should speak up. I hope this isn't deleted as I should be allowed to defend myself. If it is deleted, then I feel so, so sorry for you.
It will absolutely not be deleted.

I was asked a question in the questions thread, and I answered it as honestly as possible

I agree it has gone too far. We've talked about this privately. I said what I said on the podcast. I won't repeat myself. You know why I'm annoyed. You know I tried to squash this shit months ago. I don't like it either, but I'm just tired of it, and never seems to end. So I just go on as if you do not exist.

We don't have to like each other. I have no ill will either way. I'm over it.
Just listened to what you said on the podcast.

You literally didn't have to answer the question. Even after you answered it, you could've said, "Hey, Rich, delete that part where I take unnecessary personal shots at Fray."

What you did in that show goes far, far beyond just laughful haha wrestling talk.

Don't do what you did.

That's embarrassing. And I really do feel sorry for you and this website. And the people associated with it's name.

Be better.
Again, from the person who takes shots at me non stop, nearly every day, including countless memes of my face on your timeline. This after we privately agreed to stay out of each others way since we couldn't get along, an agreement you broke roughly five seconds after we made it.

You've taken "unnecessary personal shots" at me for months. Sorry if I'm not moved. I answered the question as honestly as possible. We don't like each other. I've moved on. Please do the same.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by IIDXias » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:09 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:
The Fray Movement wrote:
Just listened to what you said on the podcast.

You literally didn't have to answer the question. Even after you answered it, you could've said, "Hey, Rich, delete that part where I take unnecessary personal shots at Fray."

What you did in that show goes far, far beyond just laughful haha wrestling talk.

Don't do what you did.

That's embarrassing. And I really do feel sorry for you and this website. And the people associated with it's name.

Be better.
Again, from the person who takes shots at me non stop, nearly every day, including countless memes of my face on your timeline. This after we privately agreed to stay out of each others way since we couldn't get along, an agreement you broke roughly five seconds after we made it.

You've taken "unnecessary personal shots" at me for months. Sorry if I'm not moved. I answered the question as honestly as possible. We don't like each other. I've moved on. Please do the same.
WHY DID YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THE GOD DAMN QUESTION ON A PRE RECORDED AUDIO PODCAST? YOU COULD HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO ANSWER IT.

WHY DID YOU CALL ME A CHODE IN YOUR SLACK CHAT AFTER ONE OF YOUR STAFF MEMBERS PUBLICLY SAID THEY WANTED ME DEAD?

Christ almighty.
They did not say they "wanted you dead" Fray. They made a kind of stupid off-hand remark in the same tone that lots of people make off-hand remarks and you and Bill Thompson and a few others blew it out of proportion, as if a tiny genderqueer person from France had you in fear for your life. The fact that you still bring this up six months later is absolutely remarkable. It's time to start letting shit go.

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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by mlev76 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:12 pm

So.....I agree with Joe that Summerslam should be phenomenal this year.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW - G1, SummerSlam build, listener questions

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:13 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:
The Fray Movement wrote:
Just listened to what you said on the podcast.

You literally didn't have to answer the question. Even after you answered it, you could've said, "Hey, Rich, delete that part where I take unnecessary personal shots at Fray."

What you did in that show goes far, far beyond just laughful haha wrestling talk.

Don't do what you did.

That's embarrassing. And I really do feel sorry for you and this website. And the people associated with it's name.

Be better.
Again, from the person who takes shots at me non stop, nearly every day, including countless memes of my face on your timeline. This after we privately agreed to stay out of each others way since we couldn't get along, an agreement you broke roughly five seconds after we made it.

You've taken "unnecessary personal shots" at me for months. Sorry if I'm not moved. I answered the question as honestly as possible. We don't like each other. I've moved on. Please do the same.
WHY DID YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THE GOD DAMN QUESTION ON A PRE RECORDED AUDIO PODCAST? YOU COULD HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO ANSWER IT.

WHY DID YOU CALL ME A CHODE IN YOUR SLACK CHAT AFTER ONE OF YOUR STAFF MEMBERS PUBLICLY SAID THEY WANTED ME DEAD?

Christ almighty.
I probably would have skipped the question if you weren't so obsessive and so aggressive and mean spirited towards me on Twitter. So I have no sympathy. If you didn't behave the way you do, you wouldn't have people noticing how immature and boorish you come off on Twitter. The guy wanted to know what your deal is, so I explained it as honestly as possible.

Again, we don't like each other. There is some level of fault on both sides. Let it go, man. LET IT GO. I have long ago. No ill will. Be well.

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